1988 Carvin build

Discussion in 'Tele Home Depot' started by pypa, Jun 24, 2021.

  1. pypa

    pypa Tele-Holic Ad Free Member

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    A17EC9C1-E440-4F69-8C5B-6CD27549FF81.jpeg A9456666-3A7F-4AE9-A974-C293D6381D69.jpeg 7A304FAA-5392-4A3E-B549-DB1607BCB316.jpeg
     
  2. Festofish

    Festofish Tele-Afflicted Silver Supporter

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    Nice!
     
  3. pypa

    pypa Tele-Holic Ad Free Member

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    I am building a new version of this 1988 Carvin. The body style will be a little different. He also wants to eliminate the heel.

    This is my first through body.

    I am puzzling about the bridge. He loves and wants to install a Kahler tremolo. I try to aim for the fret plane to hit the saddles in their lowest position.

    The bridge is 12.7mm off the body with the saddles down. The medium frets are about 1.7mm tall. Even with a thicker fretboard (8mm) that leaves the fret plane (12.7-(1.7+8 = 3mm too low.

    The original Carvin addresses this by having the neck overstand the body top. This is an easier solution than lowering the bridge position by planing a break angle on the top.

    Is there a compelling reason to do one over the other?

    He likes the idea of no break angle and a Fender style headstock for the few odd times he needs to lay the guitar on its back...

    Thoughts and advice welcome.
     
  4. pypa

    pypa Tele-Holic Ad Free Member

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    Sorry, didn't get the text typed before the pix posted; I didn't make this one. I am using it as a model.
     
  5. Festofish

    Festofish Tele-Afflicted Silver Supporter

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    Oh hey good choice. Haha
     
  6. Freeman Keller

    Freeman Keller Poster Extraordinaire

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    Pypa, the first thing I saw when I looked at that picture was the Kahler. The second was the midi or whatever the pickup thing is. The double neck that I patterned mine off of had one of those - the owner said "you never know when you might want your guitar to sound like an obo"

    As far as the Kahler, I have installed three in JagStang bodies. I friend sourced the bodies and necks at Warmoth and brought them to me to route for the bridges, install and do the setup. Kahler has a very nice template on their web site, but it has a couple things I question.

    https://www.kahlerusa.com/public/pdf/6200RIMA.PDF

    Notice that they locate the "center of saddle travel" at the scale length - as we have discussed here several times that essentially wastes half of the travel. I actually called Kahler about this and I'm sure I was speaking to Mr Kahler - he acknowledged that you never go there "but they did it just in case". I mounted mine as always with the forward travel at the scale.

    The instructions also call for the neck to be set so the fret plane is 0.500 +/- 0.020 over the top where the bridge is mounted. The bodies that I got from Warmoth were routed for the Jaguar bridge and I had to shim the neck to get enough of an angle for that measurement. Once I did that the geometry was fine.

    IMG_3786.JPG

    IMG_3787.JPG

    IMG_3790_zpsjqae22fi.JPG

    IMG_3795_zpsujomcjvm.JPG

    I believe it was the 0.5 degree shim that worked on this particular guitar. The two dark dots on the template are flat head screws holding it in place while I route.

    I was totally impressed with the Kahler bridge - its the first truly engineered trem that I have seen. It is adjustable in every direction you could want including things like string spacing and spring tension, the action does not change as the arm is moved and one simple setscrew blocks it if you don't want it to move. Expensive, yes, but in my humble worth every cent.\

    ps - just thinking about this, with a neck thru design you have no wiggle room on angle or overstand. I would highly suggest having your bridge in hand and doing a very careful side view with your scale and everything.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2021
  7. pypa

    pypa Tele-Holic Ad Free Member

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    I have the bridge in hand.

    I can simulate overstand by rabbeting the throughneck where it enters the body. Or I can add a lamination between the top of the neck and the fretboard.
     
  8. Freeman Keller

    Freeman Keller Poster Extraordinaire

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    The thru neck guitar that Hiscock builds in the previous book has a very slight offset and angle but he doesn't go into a lot of details.

    The Carvin in your picture looks to have a fair amount of overstand, several ways to skin that kitty.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2021
  9. ctmullins

    ctmullins Tele-Meister Ad Free Member

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    I like a bit of neck angle; I find it more comfortable.

    I’ve done thru-necks both ways. Obviously you need enough thickness in the blank, but doing a 1 degree angle would probably get you where you need to be. Mill the angle into the body section, not the neck.

    The other option is as you mentioned - rabbeting the overstand into the body section. Rickenbacker-style. Also not difficult.

    [​IMG]
     
  10. pypa

    pypa Tele-Holic Ad Free Member

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    Ctmullins, do you have pix of the construction of this guitar? I am also doing a drop in top. I can see it in my head, but to see yours would help. I am making a prototype out of pine to make sure I get it right.

    I may split the difference. I’m using a thicker fretboard (8mm). 2mm for the frets puts me at 10mm at the top of the body. The bridge is 12.7mm. So I have to make up 2.7 mm over the 150mm from the top of the body to the bridge. That’s about 1 deg. So a little break and a little overstand.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2021
  11. Ed Driscoll

    Ed Driscoll Tele-Afflicted

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  12. ctmullins

    ctmullins Tele-Meister Ad Free Member

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    Yep, the build is documented here: 4004CTM. It’s my absolute favorite of all of my bass builds.

    The pine prototype sounds like a very prudent approach!
     
  13. pypa

    pypa Tele-Holic Ad Free Member

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    thank you for this. I am puzzling over how to do a top plate though. I don’t wish the neck to be visible in the body from the top side.
     
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  14. SAguitar

    SAguitar Tele-Meister

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    Carvin lover here! I used to get their catalogues for years before I finally jumped in and bought a 5-string Koa bass from them. I was truly amazed when it arrived, and decades later it still plays great. I still have 2 of their basses (one fretless), and 3 of their solid body guitars. Each of them get their share of playing time and are very appreciated.

    Great looking project you have going there!
     
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  15. pypa

    pypa Tele-Holic Ad Free Member

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    My coworker paid $600 for that guitar and that’s with the Kahler and a great hard shell case. (MIDI was aftermarket)
     
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  16. Freeman Keller

    Freeman Keller Poster Extraordinaire

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    Carvin had a very interesting marketing system. They didn't have retail outlets (I think there was one in california somewhere) so you ordered on line. As I recall you had 30 days to return it, basically all it cost was the postage. My buddy bought two of them, one acoustic arrived with bad geometry and setup - he sent it back and within a few days a replacement arrived. He kept that one.

    The whole idea was to eliminate all the middle people - distributors and retails and stocking and all that stuff, knowing that most people would be happy and keep the guitar.
     
  17. pypa

    pypa Tele-Holic Ad Free Member

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    I am surprised they did not survive. They sold to Kiesel, right?
     
  18. Freeman Keller

    Freeman Keller Poster Extraordinaire

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    They morphed into Kiessel which I think has the same sales strategy
     
  19. drf64

    drf64 Poster Extraordinaire

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    pretty sure it’s a fax machine.
     
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  20. ctmullins

    ctmullins Tele-Meister Ad Free Member

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    It would just be a deeper rabbet, to match the thickness of your top plate.
     
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