1. Win a Broadcaster or one of 3 Teles! The annual Supporting Member Giveaway is on. To enter Click Here. To see all the prizes and full details Click Here. To view the thread about the giveaway Click Here.

1970 Telecaster - no fading under pickguard?

Discussion in 'Vintage Tele Discussion Forum (pre-1974)' started by selexis, Oct 16, 2020.

  1. Fretting out

    Fretting out Poster Extraordinaire

    Age:
    29
    Posts:
    6,970
    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2019
    Location:
    Land of Mary
    I don’t know

    The second set of pictures you posted that were taken in good light almost makes it look original to me

    I can’t say 100% either way without seeing it in person
     
    selexis likes this.
  2. selexis

    selexis TDPRI Member

    Age:
    40
    Posts:
    29
    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2020
    Location:
    Maintal/Germany
    That is the part I know :) But I have no idea what the change of the cutaway is...
     
  3. blue metalflake

    blue metalflake Doctor of Teleocity

    Age:
    67
    Posts:
    12,704
    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2005
    Location:
    ireland
    It would be interesting to know the basis of placing this as a 1970 guitar - maybe from the serial number, which is unreliable at best.
    The body has what looks to be a transition notch, which would usually point at 71/72.
    I can’t read the neck stamp But that green ink was peculiar to a short period I think 69/71.
    The gasket under the neck plate appeared 70/71 and disappeared by 74ish.
    Two string trees appeared 72/73 but many earlier necks had a second one added at the time.
    Without looking any deeper, this looks to me late 71 / early 72, with a possible refin.
    Just to note- the finish under the pick guard doesn’t fade - the rest of the finish darkens, leaving the under the guard area as the original colour.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2020
    trouserpress likes this.
  4. blue metalflake

    blue metalflake Doctor of Teleocity

    Age:
    67
    Posts:
    12,704
    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2005
    Location:
    ireland
    Change of notch explained. There were bodies produced which didn’t have the full notch, which were referred to as transition.
    Like all things Fender, dates do tend to be approximate, with overlaps in most cases.

    721CF93E-7612-4D36-BF33-7ADFF860E069.jpeg
     
    telemnemonics and selexis like this.
  5. selexis

    selexis TDPRI Member

    Age:
    40
    Posts:
    29
    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2020
    Location:
    Maintal/Germany
    So, the serial number on the neck plate dates it to 1970. The bridge pickup shows a "0" as a last digit as well. Neck stamp can't be read properly. Pots date 66.

    Another issue I spotted, the cavity for the bridge pickup can be seen even if the bridge is mounted, as if the cavity got widened a little bit, or can that be original as well?

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  6. selexis

    selexis TDPRI Member

    Age:
    40
    Posts:
    29
    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2020
    Location:
    Maintal/Germany
    2020_10_17-08:54:03.1.jpg 2020_10_17-08:55:15.1.jpg 2020_10_17-08:56:33.1.jpg
     
  7. blue metalflake

    blue metalflake Doctor of Teleocity

    Age:
    67
    Posts:
    12,704
    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2005
    Location:
    ireland
    Serial numbers are best viewed as a guide rather than being definitive. The components are similar, with 1966 pots being used for years following, so it’s a matter of putting all the clues together!
    Except for the 2 string trees, this could well be a 70, though as I noted before, many people added a second tree themselves. My guess leans towards 71 but we’ve all been wrong.
    If this can be bought for decent money, it’s probably one helluva guitar. Probably got quite a slim neck, which I personally prefer, and for my money the best saddles.
     
    selexis likes this.
  8. selexis

    selexis TDPRI Member

    Age:
    40
    Posts:
    29
    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2020
    Location:
    Maintal/Germany
  9. deytookerjaabs

    deytookerjaabs Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    3,512
    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2015
    Location:
    Nashville
    Huh. The cavity route showing is normal, BTW.


    Look at the pickup/control cavities right where they meet the top of the body. You see where there appears to be pooling of a powdery caked up substance (it was the 70's, after all)? That looks like grain fill to me. Normally, with the polyester coated guitars when you see pooling at the cavity edge it's just globs of poly as the base coat was the filler. If it is grain fill that would indicate either a lacquer refin or an older body or a total anomaly.

    Also, the body contours. By '70 most clean legit examples you'll find have a softer edge radius like this:

    [​IMG]

    The '70 the OP posted has damn near the older '90 degree edges.


    But, again, hard to tell when not seeing the guitar in person.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2020
  10. Antoon

    Antoon Tele-Afflicted

    Posts:
    1,265
    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2010
    Location:
    Low Lands
    I think the body finish cannot fade under the bridge plate unless the guitar was in pieces all the time. I also think I see the original finish in the control cavity, which looks to be stripped near the top. I also think it was re-soldered, because of the bigger more convex solder blobs on the pots.
     
  11. PJ55

    PJ55 Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

    Posts:
    5,568
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2003
    Location:
    Philadelphia, PA
    Yes....mine has yellowed over the years, but no difference under the pickguard. I found that a little odd, also. (My serial number is 300XXX).


    4A2F41AB-1CD0-46C9-9974-387005966E8E.jpeg
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2020
  12. PJ55

    PJ55 Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

    Posts:
    5,568
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2003
    Location:
    Philadelphia, PA
    OK....Here’s some under-the-hood pics. Maybe a little yellowing. But, we’re talking a half-century. I think I agree with the guys who contend that poly finishes don’t fade much. This one has gotten a lot of basement, bar and case-time, so not much UV exposure. I’m the original owner.

    F27353EA-4EF7-4FAE-A2EF-906B6920AD52.jpeg 9EC8C82A-81DA-47E5-B4AC-017A95295443.jpeg
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2020
    Telecaster88 and Antoon like this.
  13. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Telefied Ad Free Member

    Age:
    61
    Posts:
    25,177
    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2010
    Location:
    Maine
    I think in terms of most of those dates & changes but I put the notch change as first appearing in '73.
    To my recall it is always the later version in '74, usually or maybe always in '73, and never in '72 except of course I have not seen ever Tele from '72.
    I'm pretty darn certain none of the '71 Tele bodies had that change, as in zero zilch nada never in '71.
    If found on a '72 is would IMO be the very endof the year, and be quite uncommon.
    Of course I used to part out mid to late '70s Fenders because nobody liked them and nobody seemed to care!
    So I've put body and neck combos on the market that looked kinda right but were not.
    I'm certain that plenty of seemingly alloriginal Fenders are swapped parts within a few years of each other, but nobody can prove one way or another if it is or isn't the body that came attached to that usually easier to date neck.

    I've seen comparison pics that suggest the notch changed gradually, but those IMO confuse sanding variations on the former shape where the notch can be longer or shorter on the thin edge.
    Additionally, as shown on this example, the later circa '73 shape that is typically no notch at all, some will have a little bit of notch yet have the new non notch larger radius shape; because if the milling chips that thinner edge, you simply sand the chipped part off on the spindle sander. Hence the later shape can appear to be a gradual change when in reality it is just the guy or gal operating the spindle sander.

    Once the circa 1973 version appeared, it was not only further up right at the edge, but the whole bass side "horn" was reshaped, not just the little edge of the notch.

    If you take a 3/4" cutter head it fits perfectly in that pre '73 curve, while the circa '73 and later is a much larger radius, not just the same radius a little further up toward the headstock.

    I find the appearance of the later shape aggravating!
    Looking at a rack full of Telecasters those circa '73-'80 shapes stick out like sore thumbs!
    I can't understand how that detail goes unnoticed by many of us.

    Notably GFS and other el cheapo import bodies have that shape, I suspect because it is easier to mill and easier to sand.
    I would bet CBS had the same idea when they changed the pattern for the Tele body.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2020
    Antoon, selexis and blue metalflake like this.
  14. PJ55

    PJ55 Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

    Posts:
    5,568
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2003
    Location:
    Philadelphia, PA
    I bought mine in Jan. ‘71 and the neck is marked 1970, which makes sense. There were 300,000s serial numbers in ‘70-‘71 as far as I know. I also got it in the Fender box, so I know it wasn’t refinished. Notice that where you see the fading are the transparent finishes, not the 70s opaque finishes, which are all poly finished.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2020
    selexis and Antoon like this.
  15. Antoon

    Antoon Tele-Afflicted

    Posts:
    1,265
    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2010
    Location:
    Low Lands

    The US price plus $200 shipping and 20% VAT/import tax, I suppose. There is no other reason why the price in Europe would be different. Anyone can import a guitar from the US with two mouse clicks.And most of the vintage guitar sales within the US are online anyway.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2020
    telemnemonics likes this.
  16. selexis

    selexis TDPRI Member

    Age:
    40
    Posts:
    29
    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2020
    Location:
    Maintal/Germany
    So how does the notch look like a your guitar? I am curious to learn more about those details :)
     
  17. PJ55

    PJ55 Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

    Posts:
    5,568
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2003
    Location:
    Philadelphia, PA
    69FF4ABF-692D-4A81-BF09-2290793EB850.jpeg 7ABDEDC6-0BC9-4525-9128-36B9EB74E59C.jpeg Here’s the ‘70 notch compared to a 50s RI notch. Slightly different.
     
  18. PJ55

    PJ55 Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

    Posts:
    5,568
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2003
    Location:
    Philadelphia, PA
    Pretty sure later than ‘70 sometime, the notch became
    much deeper. Mid-70s maybe?
    I suppose that would make mine
    a “transitional” change. Not very different from the 50s Teles, but a change nonetheless.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2020
  19. Matthias

    Matthias Friend of Leo's Gold Supporter

    Posts:
    3,307
    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2003
    Location:
    UK
    The notch disappeared gradually between '72 and '74.

    What's the serial? That looks like a '73 to me in every detail, dated by the slight notch. The neck date is worn, but it could say '73B'.

    As to the finish fading... If it was kept it its case and rarely played, it might not fade. However, it might be a refin. There is something a bit messy about it in places...
     
  20. PJ55

    PJ55 Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

    Posts:
    5,568
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2003
    Location:
    Philadelphia, PA
    It couldn’t be a ‘73 because of the low 300,000 S/N, one string tree and no gasket. If I bought it in early ‘71 and it has a ‘70 neck (which I didn’t know until a luthier refinished and refretted the neck 20 years ago) and I bought it new.
     
IMPORTANT: Treat everyone here with respect, no matter how difficult!
No sex, drug, political, religion or hate discussion permitted here.