1967: Year of Transition

[Antoon]

Definitely very interested to see pictures!

 

[Bedicine29]

Bumping this thread. Just purchased a 1967 Telecaster, trying to find the missing pieces now

 

[slack]

1968: Year of Transition
1969: Year of Transition

Just sayin'.

PSA: The neck date stamp does not date the guitar. It doesn't even date a completed neck. An OCT - DEC 67 neck stamp would far more likely be found on a 1968 Tele than a 1967.

 

[Crashbelt]

Bumping this thread. Just purchased a 1967 Telecaster, trying to find the missing pieces now

Congratulations- can you post pictures and let us know about the key transitional features.

The OPs database on 67s is a great resource and I hope he comes back to continue the great work.

 

[Antoon]

1968: Year of Transition
1969: Year of Transition

Just sayin'.

PSA: The neck date stamp does not date the guitar. It doesn't even date a completed neck. An OCT - DEC 67 neck stamp would far more likely be found on a 1968 Tele than a 1967.

I presume that does not count for the earlier hand written neck dates? Are those dates from when the neck was actually made?

 

[Bedicine29]

Hello,
Seems to be the F tuners from the factory as no additional holes drilled. Neck is dated Aug 1967 and looks like the body was white but was repainted fiesta red at some point as its starting to wear. I have the original bridge, neck plate as well.

Would anyone be able to identify these pickups, i know they're not original but came with the guitar.

 

[slack]

I presume that does not count for the earlier hand written neck dates? Are those dates from when the neck was actually made?

Hm... I've thought about this as much as anyone. If I had one question for Abigail...

It's a reasonable presumption. Kinda...

I can't say for certain, because I don't know for certain. What I do know, in the 60s era of ink stamping, is that Fender would source wood, and they would of course store the wood and let it dry. The degree to which they did that, technologically, then compared to now, I do not know. Based on the old film footage and pics, gonna say it was low tech, on racks out in the open (versus some effort at climate control and moisture monitoring). But I do know that intermediately, they would rough cut a neck from the raw wood blanks, and that is when the model/date code was applied. And that rough shaped blank was again was set aside to dry for a while (typically months).

There is a very recently posted tour of the PRS factory where this intermediate step in making necks is discussed. in fact, the introduction to the lengthy piece is Paul himself saying how he didn't consider himself/them a "real" guitar maker until he was making necks (not just making bodies or assembling parts). In the video they talk about how once they rough cut the neck blank, they wait to see how it acclimates/responds before completely shaping the neck.

So, what was Fender doing up until the early 60s? It's possible that yeah, the necks were dated (and sometimes signed) after complete shaping, but obviously before finishing. However, why date them if that were the case? Most body and neck dates in the 50s (and 60s and 70s) were applied to bare wood, before finish was applied, never mind final assembly. I suspect that what was happening in the 50s was not unlike what was happening when they started using stamps. Maybe the timeline was shorter between steps, but it just makes sense that a neck date was applied with regard to manufacturing quality/tracking, and not for people to date the guitar decades later; especially when that date was, with certainty, written on the neck butt somewhere in the process of manufacture, not when the neck was completed (because, duh - it's under the finish!)...

But, I don't know for certain.

 

[57joonya]

Hi all,

Ever since buying my 1967 Tele, I have become a little obsessed with learning as much as I can about this particular year of production. As many of you know, this was a pretty big transition year for the Tele, from a change in head-stock logo, to tuning machines, to the introduction of the Fender/Bigsby tremelo. Frankly, I've heard a lot of different information and/or opinions about these changes as well as others, so I decided to do some research for myself.

So far I have located close about one hundred 1967 Tele's that were recently sold or are currently for sale (yes, in case you were wondering, I am retired and have too much time on my hands). I have created a spread sheet listing the serial numbers, neck stamp dates, and other features such as color/finish, fingerboard material, logo type, tuning machine types, as well as any other special/interesting facts such as guitars with original Bigsby's and whether or not the guitars have been partially or totally refinished. I even have photos of all but 10 or so of these guitars. I've learned a lot and have seen some interesting trends and exceptions, but I'm not sure what to do with this info now. Who knows, if I ever get around to doing the same for other year's production, I may write a book about vintage Tele's. Perhaps detailed information such as this may someday help folks evaluate the originality of guitars they own or are interested in purchasing.

I would be happy to share the data I've collected with anyone who might be interested and would also be willing to include any information that this group might want to share about their 67's. I understand that some may be reluctant to give out this information, so let me say that my interest's are purely academic and I will in no way pester anyone or request any personal information. I'm only interested in the guitars and when exactly Fender made the changes mentioned above. I collect no information about owner's, only guitars. In fact, all the guitars I have on the list so far were from sales ad's and auctions, so I have no idea who the owners are now. I've simply run out of guitars on-line to research and wondered if any owners here would be willing to add to this collection of data.


Thanks,


Paul

1967 Telecaster
1974 Telecaster Thinline
1977 Telecaster Deluxe
1978 Telecaster Custom
2010 Tele-box-ster "Howlin' Wolf" Cigar Box
2011 Telecaster American Vintage "Thin-Skin" '59 Reissue
2011 Telecaster Telebration 60th Anniversary Lite Rosewood
2013 Telecaster Select Carved Top Tasmanian Blackwood
2014 Telecaster Custom Shop Limited Edition Rosewood
2016 Partscaster Camphor Burl Custom

Great project, I love to find out the details . One thing I’m curious of about 1967 is were they still using Brazilian fretboards on some of the guitars ? I would assume so, but don’t know . A lot of the boards tend to start looking lighter in shade in those years , but then I have seen lighter shaded Brazilian rosewood. Also of the guitars you have researched, how many do you suppose still have the original finish ?

 

[57joonya]

And another nice custom guitar with an AUG 67 neck, kluson and transition logo.

https://reverb.com/item/6123820-fender-custom-telecaster-1967-sunburst

That’s a nice one .
It looks like it’s got a pretty full neck ! I like that neck shape ,
I thought they were a little skinnier in 67 typically, but understand that there wasn’t any exact size back then

 

[slack]

One thing I’m curious of about 1967 is were they still using Brazilian fretboards on some of the guitars ? I would assume so, but don’t know . A lot of the boards tend to start looking lighter in shade in those years , but then I have seen lighter shaded Brazilian rosewood.

There's info online asserting that Fender started to phase out Brazilian RW around 66, but who knows.

I tend not to associate one or the other with dark versus light, but rather figuring and grain (mostly). I do not oil fingerboards, except with sweat and tears (and maybe a spilled drink). And I've seen some really light 50s Gibson RW boards.

Regarding light/dark contrast (figuring); here's a no-doubter. Care to guess the neck date?

 

[57joonya]

There's info online asserting that Fender started to phase out Brazilian RW around 66, but who knows.

I tend not to associate one or the other with dark versus light, but rather figuring and grain (mostly). I do not oil fingerboards, except with sweat and tears (and maybe a spilled drink). And I've seen some really light 50s Gibson RW boards.

Regarding light/dark contrast (figuring); here's a no-doubter. Care to guess the neck date?

View attachment 1026527

I’ll take a wild guess and say that’s a 59. It’s a beautiful board though.

 

[Antoon]

Hm... I've thought about this as much as anyone. If I had one question for Abigail...

It's a reasonable presumption. Kinda...

I can't say for certain, because I don't know for certain. What I do know, in the 60s era of ink stamping, is that Fender would source wood, and they would of course store the wood and let it dry. The degree to which they did that, technologically, then compared to now, I do not know. Based on the old film footage and pics, gonna say it was low tech, on racks out in the open (versus some effort at climate control and moisture monitoring). But I do know that intermediately, they would rough cut a neck from the raw wood blanks, and that is when the model/date code was applied. And that rough shaped blank was again was set aside to dry for a while (typically months).

There is a very recently posted tour of the PRS factory where this intermediate step in making necks is discussed. in fact, the introduction to the lengthy piece is Paul himself saying how he didn't consider himself/them a "real" guitar maker until he was making necks (not just making bodies or assembling parts). In the video they talk about how once they rough cut the neck blank, they wait to see how it acclimates/responds before completely shaping the neck.

So, what was Fender doing up until the early 60s? It's possible that yeah, the necks were dated (and sometimes signed) after complete shaping, but obviously before finishing. However, why date them if that were the case? Most body and neck dates in the 50s (and 60s and 70s) were applied to bare wood, before finish was applied, never mind final assembly. I suspect that what was happening in the 50s was not unlike what was happening when they started using stamps. Maybe the timeline was shorter between steps, but it just makes sense that a neck date was applied with regard to manufacturing quality/tracking, and not for people to date the guitar decades later; especially when that date was, with certainty, written on the neck butt somewhere in the process of manufacture, not when the neck was completed (because, duh - it's under the finish!)...

But, I don't know for certain.

So one of the goals of the neck date was to keep track of were the neck was in the drying process. That makes sense, especially for necks, maybe less for bodies. In the video of the factory tour in the late 50s you also see necks being rough cut from blanks, so perhaps the handwritten neck date was applied directly after that, similar to the later stamping. But it is also customary that any manufactured part gets a production date.

Modern custom neck manufacturers like Musikraft cut the complete neck from a blank in a couple of weeks but they probably use kiln dried wood.

Interesting stuff! Thanks for the info Slack!

 

[Baracus101]

Is this info/doc available still?
I have two 67's now (well one is about to be delivered in a few days) and would like to add them, as well as see the other details to compare

 

[brookdalebill]

1967 was the year I transitioned from wannabe guitar owner, to guitar owner.
I didn’t really become a player till 1969.
Close enough, for me.

 

[FenderLover]

Mine is stuck in '68 mediocrity, with a foot in the past and and eye on the future.

 

[DaveGo]

If the neck dates were stamped at some time before assembly or blank stage prior to drying how does that jive with the transitional aspects of headstock decal and tuners? Duchossoir indicates that the transitional decal is found up until the Fall of 1967. Late 1967 F tuners. I'm faily certain he did it by consulting the neck dates. Must not have been much time drying or whatever between the stamped date and assembly. I need some schooling.

 

[monkeybanana]

I can't find it anymore but there was a Jerry Cantrell interview where he said he asked Leo to build his G&L like an old Fender and Leo says he can't because the wood he was getting during Fender days was already very old.

 

[COOPSTER]