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1964 125P1B power transformer..rewind??.

Discussion in 'Amp Tech Center' started by Wally, Dec 17, 2020.

  1. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

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    Okay, so I have a 1964 125P1B power transformer that is correct for a Champ, Vibrochamp, Princeton or Princeton Reverb. It has a short between the primary and the HT secondary. Considering the value of a BF Princeton reverb from the last quarter of 1964 or early 1965, would it be worth the investment of having it rewound to blueprint specs? I am curious....
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2020
  2. schmee

    schmee Doctor of Teleocity

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    I have wondered such also. As part of an amp that needs it ....probably. As a sell alone item.. hmmm... I think rewind is.. $120 or more?

    But it's interesting because now it seems hard to find that particular small PT at a reasonable price, suddenly they have become almost as much as a bigger PT... I don't really understand why.? I just ordered one to put in my Mono 15 conversion (to Princeton clone) as I want to get the vintage Princeton PT out of that amp before I possibly sell it.
     
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  3. 2L man

    2L man Tele-Meister

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    It is possible to do it yourself if you want. There are examples in internet and youtube and vimeo videos. If you buy the work it might cost quite a lot more than similar new?
     
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  4. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

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    The only reason why I would consider rewinding this transformer is for the ‘originality’ aspect. A new transformer in such a vintage amp greatly reduces the value. I am wondering what a good, professional, and possibly blueprinted rewind would do for such an amp’s value compared to a replacement transformer....and IF there would be a market for such a transformer IF a person had an amp which date matched such a transformer.??? example....I have sold a bad 5F6A that needed a rewind for good money...their offer. I probably could have gotten more. Then, they had to put up money for the rewind. What they offered me was considerably more than what a new replacement transformer from say Hammond or ClassicTone...now defunct...would have charged, and that wa for a dead transformer, right? Sometimes, vintage value is paramount, ime. These Princeton Reverbs are getting up into that rarified value levels
    where every aspect of the amp has to be considered for its effect on the value.
    side note as a warning.....the amp from which this PT was removed was not a pristine example. The owner talked to me over a year ago about problems with the amp. I suggested that he not play the amp until it was worked on. A couple of months ago he brought the amp in...dead. A failed cap had taken out this PT. His repair bill doubled....but he finally has a good sounding amp....albeit a Prin Rev amp in a makeshift cab. His amp ther3fore did not lose much value......that value was already gone. His repair was sim9ly more expensive.
     
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  5. Lowerleftcoast

    Lowerleftcoast Friend of Leo's

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    I have a dead PT from a Deluxe Reverb. I thought I would try to rewind it. The disassembly is too much for me. Maybe I need to bath it in chemicals to get it apart. These days about the only chemical that is legal in California is CBD.

    I have seen a few amps that have been parted out to sell them for more than the amp could fetch otherwise. I hope more of the market does not go this way. Fakes in the market are bad enough. We don't need more!
     
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  6. King Fan

    King Fan Poster Extraordinaire Ad Free Member

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    Sorry to sidetrack for a sec, Wally, but am I guessing right it was a filter cap? In any case, we've seen several 'replace your e-caps' threads where smart folks said they believed old caps were a risk to take out the PT but had never actually seen it happen. I like evidence and experience; yours is extensive and valuable. :)
     
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  7. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

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    Yes, King Fan. It was a filter cap failure.
     
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  8. LudwigvonBirk

    LudwigvonBirk Tele-Holic

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    If it were part of an amp restore job, I’d probably install a high quality new transformer and include the broken-vintage-original in a box with any other vintage-original stuff like the caps etc that were removed during restoration. Next guy deals with vintage vs functional, and he has all the parts to play around with. Win-Win.

    If it’s just the transformer...cool project, but I posit the return on investment on a re-wound 60’s Champ transformer isn’t going to net you much (including in the “period correct restoration” sense).
     
  9. jsnwhite619

    jsnwhite619 Friend of Leo's

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    My local amp friend has had a couple PTs rewound on vintage Fenders, he's been happy. If you are looking for someone who does it, I can ask him who he found. I can't remember where he sent it but I know it was out of state.
     
  10. charlie chitlin

    charlie chitlin Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

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    I'd like to know who rewinds them.
    The cooked PT from my 56 Deluxe has been in a box for...I dunno...35 years...
     
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  11. jsnwhite619

    jsnwhite619 Friend of Leo's

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    Somebody tag me in a post this weekend if I don't report back. I'll see if I can get ahold of him. I know it was someone who is just a single guy operation, he didn't use Mercury or anything like that.
     
  12. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

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    I agree that the value of a 1964/1965 Champ or Vibrochamp would not warrant a rewind, but this PT also is used in the Princeton Reverb. That amp’s value is why I wonder about a rewind on this one. The amp from which it came was not a prime example....it was just the chassis from the original amp...n9 cab, no speaker. I installed a new Hammond with more current handling. The owner was not interested in keeping the old PT. The transformer is perfectly clean...no rust at all. IF someone has a date-matching Prin Rev that needs a matching PT, a quality rewind would be advantageous, ime.


    Charlie, IF I have this done, it will be done by Mercury Magnetics. They will do a simple rewind, they will rewind to a blueprint from
    Another 125P1B they have torn down in the past, or they will do a blueprint of a particular transformer as they tear it down. Those options are offered at three different prices. I only consider this when a vintage amp in which a transformer fits has value up in the thousands of dollars. The BF Prin Rev value seems to be headed skyward with no let it.
     
  13. Dacious

    Dacious Poster Extraordinaire

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    Look for console radio and record player restorers. They usually know someone who can.

    My guy unfortunately has retired but he'd do one original looking for 1/3rd the price of a good quality new one. He's just rewound a 120v primary to 240 volts for me.
     
  14. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

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    My perspective on such a rewind is that I would want a known entity to have done the rewind if I were the end user. Ime, there is only one option that has the experience, the blueprints, and the reputation in the marketplace that would make me want to pay for a rewind of this particular...or maybe any other....transformer. And no...I do not have any affiliation with MM...just a bit of experience with them.
     
  15. theprofessor

    theprofessor Poster Extraordinaire

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    I'm curious about this, Wally: are there still folks who are willing and ready to pay good money for an amp that is all original or that has period-correct parts? I'd assume there is, but I don't know. Maybe it's my own pragmatism, amp-wise, that makes me wonder if it really could be so.
     
  16. LudwigvonBirk

    LudwigvonBirk Tele-Holic

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    I bet you could restore and trade it for something cool.

    “Willing to trade for original ‘64 Princeton Reverb faceplate” :lol:
     
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  17. BobbyZ

    BobbyZ Doctor of Teleocity

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    Here's one, notice anything odd in the side view? Besides all the crud from the fire, s 20201220_044609_HDR.jpg 20201220_044649_HDR.jpg till cleaning up this 64 PR.
     
  18. Huddy

    Huddy Tele-Holic

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    I recently reached out to Heyboer about a rewind on a OT. They told me $120-150 if I knew the specs... add $160-200 to that if I don't know the specs. They reuse everything but the coil wire.

    Since you know the specs, and a replacement transformer is $50-60? That's a $70 premium to maintain the pedigree... If a transformer is replaced when you go to sell it, maybe someone dings it $300+/- in their mind, maybe more. So you're at a $230 net positive... I'd consider that to be a good return on investment. Maybe MM is a bit more, but still.
     
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  19. BobbyZ

    BobbyZ Doctor of Teleocity

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    I should mention the "odd" thing about that "numbers matching" PT on my burnt 64 Princeton Reverb. It's a Classic Tone with the endbells off the original power transformer.
    Kind of a "rewind". :)
     
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  20. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

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    BobbyZ, yeah the bells would make a replacement look ‘correct’. And I am sure that many people have done just such a thing with no disclosure upon a sale, right? I was thinking about a blueprinted rewind with full disclosure. At any rate....I am mulling it over. Thanks for all of the responses.
     
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