1959 ES-335TD proto build

Discussion in 'Tele Home Depot' started by preeb, May 3, 2011.

  1. preeb

    preeb Poster Extraordinaire Vendor Member

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    Thanks Emperor-TK.
    I guess you could use your maple veneer but why not use holly?
    Holly veneer in HS blank size is less than $3.-
     
  2. QuickDilation

    QuickDilation TDPRI Member

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    Great work as always Gil! I check this thread like 20 times a day... It curbs my urge to by anymore guitars until I can get a yaron original... ;-)
     
  3. Emperor-TK

    Emperor-TK TDPRI Member

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    I just received my new '59 EB-2 today, but it has the low neck angle of a '58 without any binding. I'm not sure what your looking for, but maybe this might help?
     
  4. Yosswell

    Yosswell TDPRI Member

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    Becks+Youtube+TDPRI=
    <iframe width="560" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/qJjq-ibHYXY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

    Co-inkie-dink? I think not, good sir.

    Yeah I'm a little **** faced -__-:twisted:

    Edit:I failed to properly put the video in. I think the more "enlightened" you are the less patient.


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJjq-ibHYXY&hd=1
     
  5. preeb

    preeb Poster Extraordinaire Vendor Member

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    I'm trying to find out if there were low angled shims under the early 58 boards.
    I didn't have any 58's inspected and do not have access to one so I was only going by online photos and word of mouth (very bad) assuming that there were no shims at all. but looking very closely on this photo bellow, I believe I was wrong...

    [​IMG]

    But the photo is not clear enough.
     
  6. preeb

    preeb Poster Extraordinaire Vendor Member

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  7. QuickDilation

    QuickDilation TDPRI Member

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    If its any help at all, it definitely looks like there is a shim under there... maybe i shouldn't just take your word for it anymore Gil, and second guess you at every decision and comment you make :p
     
  8. preeb

    preeb Poster Extraordinaire Vendor Member

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    That's exactly what I expect. I wish there were more inputs regarding old specs. I've been wrong many times before but the important thing is to eventually get everything correct and corrected (-; I'll be the first to admit any mistake I made.
    The problem is that many keep their knowledge close to the chest instead of sharing (there are a few others as well and I thank them), but it doesn't matter because the instruments are out there and I'll get what I need one way or the other and post it online.
    It has always been this way for many years... the vintage and replicas domain is full with castles made of sand.
    And please... let's not develop this into an argumental debate (-;
     
  9. preeb

    preeb Poster Extraordinaire Vendor Member

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    Filler is sanded flush with the veneer

    [​IMG]

    Like this

    [​IMG]

    TR adjustment cut is made with a 3/16" steel rod with a sharply filed tip (about 30°).
    This is a cheap and wonderful tool anyone can make. I use it to cut tight corners and outlines. The rod itself is following the template and multiple passes can be made for deeper cuts.

    [​IMG]

    Nice and clean...

    [​IMG]

    I'll be using PF glue (not hide glue...) which is the proper and historically correct glue for veneers. It is stored in the form of fine powder

    [​IMG]

    little water added and the glue should be mixed well to dissolve completely

    [​IMG]

    Holly veneer top is wiped a few times with water to balance the water from the glue on it's under side. If I skip this stage the veneer will warp upward and away from the HS before the glue cures.

    [​IMG]

    It curves immediately (-;

    [​IMG]

    Glued and clamped

    [​IMG]

    This glue is very different from hide glue. Once cured it will change it's chemical structure and will not melt in water or heat. It doesn't gel like hide glue so the clamps will remain there for at least 12 hours.
    The holly veneer is an important part of the headstock and no matter how thin, will still add strength to the weak area and can save it from breaking backward. This is why it's so important to glue it properly with the correct glue. PF is known to add a lot of strength and has no creeping properties like many modern glues.
     
  10. kwerk

    kwerk Poster Extraordinaire

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    What is "PF" glue, Gil?
     
  11. melomanarock

    melomanarock Tele-Holic

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    Hi Gil how are you? I wish I could have 1% of the access you have to vintage guitars to put my imput but the oldest guitars around here are late 60's if any.. if it is any help I do see a line under the fretboard in your pic that could be the shim, it looks too straight to be a crack or a lacquer build up..

    I do have a couple of questions though..
    What inlay filler are you using? is it wood dust and epoxy?
    and last, you've mentioned several times that hide glue pulls wood together as it cures but I was wondering what ever happened to the sandwich jig to glue the board? do you get the same result with those spring clamps?
     
  12. melomanarock

    melomanarock Tele-Holic

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    double post..
     
  13. BlackdogCG

    BlackdogCG TDPRI Member

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    I don't have any vintage experience myself, the most vintage I ever got was a 69 Deluxe LP...

    But FWIW and just to add my bit of noise to the subject, what I see in the picture are two things: There seems to be an angle, at least on the outer ledge of the top. See how the binding gets narrower towards the neck. But the angle does not seem to extend for the whole FB length, anyway. There seems to be a short wedge too...

    Of course you shouldn't go just by the interpretation of a picture, but for what we've seen (thanks to your detailed investigation), it wouldn't be completely surprising if there were examples of all options among the 58s... Some with wedges, some without, some with a built-in angle on the top or any combinations of the above.
    I would assume that given the hand-built nature of the beast, the very first were all prototypes in one way or another...

    What I mean is that it may take the inspection of more than one instrument to know for sure.

    BTW, Gil, do you mind sharing where you have your logos cut ?? I tried to contact the previously mentioned luthiersupplies.com almost a week ago but got no reply at all so far...
     
  14. LC100

    LC100 Tele-Meister

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    Phenol Formaldehyde. There's also UF - Urea Formaldehyde.
     
  15. preeb

    preeb Poster Extraordinaire Vendor Member

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    Pink Floyd Glue.
    Just kidding..
    Phenol Formaldehyde is vastly used in lamination.
    The LP top is also glued with PF.
     
  16. Nick JD

    Nick JD Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    Phenol Formaldehyde glue is used to make plywood. And MDF - although I think MDF uses UF.

    One's waterproof (marine grade), one's not. Nasty stuff.
     
  17. preeb

    preeb Poster Extraordinaire Vendor Member

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    Thanks...
    The filler is hide glue based and documented in the LP proto build.
    The sandwich jig is used to drive the hide glue when it's still in liquid form (before gelling) out to get a zero gap.
    I don't do this with the G builds.
     
  18. madebydave

    madebydave TDPRI Member

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    Gil I added a couple of lines to your photo in autocad.

    [​IMG]

    I use this technique on photos all the time for my real job.
    I would agree that there is a shim under there.

    Link to my site of guitars madebydave.
     
  19. preeb

    preeb Poster Extraordinaire Vendor Member

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    Either a shim or a lot of dry hide glue...
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2011
  20. madebydave

    madebydave TDPRI Member

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    Gil, the photo you have is actually very clear.
    The smaller end of the shim ends at about the 19-3/4 fret.
    When zoomed in you can see the change in direction of the compound shim+fretboard bottom.
    And the shim measures to be 2 deg.

    A link to my Les Paul madebydave.
     
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