1. Win a Broadcaster or one of 3 Teles! The annual Supporting Member Giveaway is on. To enter Click Here. To see all the prizes and full details Click Here. To view the thread about the giveaway Click Here.

1946 Fender Woody Princeton Amp & Steel

Discussion in 'Amp Central Station' started by creebobby, Aug 4, 2013.

  1. ampking300

    ampking300 Tele-Meister

    Posts:
    100
    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2013
    Location:
    Middle Village,New York
    Model 26 dimensions

    Creebobby and all else interested in making repro cabs: answers: 1) 11" high,12 1/8" wide---2) 7 1/2" deep---3) 8 1/2"--- 4) 10" wide, 1 3/8" tall---5) 1/2" and 1 1/2"---6) 1 3/4"---2 3/4". I'll get back to you with the Pro dimensions next week, it's at my daughter's apt.----Pro has 15" speaker. Obviously you should use the best grade walnut, maple, mahogany, oak or ash, all 3/4" thick---you MUST use a flex bit holder to drill hole for the angle iron,( this can be found on ebay ), and even with this it is very hard as you will get scraped knuckles when you screw the angle iron in, especially on the small Princeton cabs, I've left some blood stains on quite a few of my cabs. I used stainless steel 18 or 20 gauge for the baffle strips, good luck to all,Ray
     
  2. creebobby

    creebobby TDPRI Member

    Posts:
    31
    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2013
    Location:
    Platypus Island
    Awesome information, thanks!
    Yeah, I forgot that the Pro was a 15 incher.
    Strange that there was never a 12" woody!
     
  3. creebobby

    creebobby TDPRI Member

    Posts:
    31
    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2013
    Location:
    Platypus Island
    Still haven't heard back from the woodworker. He said he'd be in Belize for a month so I might not hear from him until he gets back.
     
  4. creebobby

    creebobby TDPRI Member

    Posts:
    31
    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2013
    Location:
    Platypus Island
    Wow, it's been a while!

    I never heard back from the woodworker, and have been too busy to track him down. (I built a DIY Batmobile over the last year.)

    I met another woodworker at the local ukulele club, and when I asked him about making some cabinets, he said he only has time to work on his ukuleles right now.

    But, while up at my parents' house I found a mini router table, and at some point I'll use it to make at least a pair of DIY woody cabs for myself.

    Kind of sad now that I wasn't able to buy the Princeton when I first saw it!

    Will update in the future when I make something . . . .
     
  5. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

    Posts:
    37,244
    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2003
    Location:
    Lubbock, TX
    Creebobby, fwiw, the Woddy cabs don't require any sophisticated woodworking tools, IIRC. There are no finger joints as later on with the covered cabs. All the joints are reinforced butt joints, I think.

    Tangent: Now....we have to see pics of this Batmobile.
     
    dazzaman likes this.
  6. Watto

    Watto Tele-Meister

    Posts:
    149
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2011
    Location:
    Australia
    Hi folks, I know this thread is 7 years old, I just stumbled across it , and it's sparked my interest , I've downloaded many pictures of the amp and I've almost finished tracing the circuit. It's got a couple of weird anomalies that don't make sense , I'll post my findings soon, it might ask more questions than it answers . I've contact Ray - AmpKing and hopefully with the info he has , I'll be able to finish an accurate schematic and layout ... regards Watto
     
  7. Watto

    Watto Tele-Meister

    Posts:
    149
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2011
    Location:
    Australia
    Hello Folks, I've managed to draw up a schematic from the photos provided by Creebobby .

    The wiring of the power section is unclear , I can see from one picture they've used the spare pins on the rectifier socket to tap off the mains to the On/Off switch on the back of the pot . The yellow wire going down to the field coil and 3 black wires (2 from the OT itself) are a little confusing as they all cluster around the Plate and screen pins of the 6V6 tube

    The biggest anomaly I don't understand is the signal flow from the input jack to the Volume pot (I'm guessing it's volume , it could be something else I've never seen ) then out to the Output tube.
    It seems to be wired backwards and doesn't make sense to me

    I've repaired ,restored built clones of many vintage Fender amps over the years and I've never come across this , Then again I've never seen inside an old Princeton until now .

    I'll leave the picture here, It's definitely a first draught and will need correction , But I've gone over the photos many many times and I don't get how the 6SC7 is wired . To me the input is wired via a coupling cap to the plate/anode of the first Triode, then it taps off in a grid leak bias style to the other pin of the Volume pot , That to me is backwards . Then it comes off the wiper of the pot to the grid of the 2nd 6SC7 triode ... that's where it is now flowing the correct way

    Maybe some others could chime in and see if I've traced it from the photos wrong , but thats what I think is going on . More angles would be better , but I think the amp left Creebobby's hand a long time ago ....

    anyway here's the first draft .... your thoughts would be grateful

    regards
    Watto
    (FenderAmpFreak)
     

    Attached Files:

  8. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

    Posts:
    37,244
    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2003
    Location:
    Lubbock, TX
    Not seeing the photos from which you are working leaves one wondering whadahey? I agree that the input that you describe is questionable. I would expect it to resemble closely the schematic that is available online and is shown on page 1 of this thread...and here....
    https://el34world.com/charts/Schematics/files/Fender/Fender_princeton.pdf


    Where do you see the pics?
     
  9. Watto

    Watto Tele-Meister

    Posts:
    149
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2011
    Location:
    Australia
    the pics are on page 1 of this thread , here's the link

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/creebobby/sets/72157635000474608/

    The Schematic you linked is the first incarnation of the tweed Princetons, This "woody" Princeton is closer to a tweed champ than the later Princeton we all know, The early amp didn't have a volume or tone pot, It was adjusted by the guitar , this one is rather interesting as it has a volume pot that looks to be original .... hence my interest.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2020
    Wally likes this.
  10. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

    Posts:
    37,244
    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2003
    Location:
    Lubbock, TX
    Thanks. All I can say is that if you can draw a schematic from that picture, I salute you. How did you conclude that that cap coming off of the input is connected to a plate?
    I believe that it is connected to a control grid, but that belief is based on how a vacuum tube works rather than what I can see there because I see nothing that would allow me to draw any conclusions as to what is connected to what.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2020
    Watto likes this.
  11. Watto

    Watto Tele-Meister

    Posts:
    149
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2011
    Location:
    Australia
    With a little bit of photoshop adjusting the shadows and highlights etc m you can see into the shadows a little better
    This picture doesn't show where the input Cap is connected , EDIT .I've traced the wires in different colours to help and in doing so I think I've worked it out

    I thought this picture showed the two 0.01 caps from the volume pot going to the two grid pins , 3 an 4 , But in fact the top cap goes to pin2 (Plate) and the input Cap goes to pin 3 (grid) Now this makes sense , and from the picture in my next post I can pretty much confirm that .

    You can also see the grounded pins of 8,1 and 6 , and the heater wire going to pin 7 along with the two plate resistors (1M) going to pins 2 and 5 , though pin 2 isn't in view in this picture
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Oct 15, 2020
  12. Watto

    Watto Tele-Meister

    Posts:
    149
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2011
    Location:
    Australia
    This side view you can see the wiring of some parts better , This confirms to me that the input cap goes to pin 3 the grid, and that the volume pot taps off the plate as it should . Then goes through the pot and down to the grid of the second 6SC7 triode.

    Now all I need to work out is what is that wiring for the screen /plate and field coil of the power tube /Output trans and speaker

    we're getting there .

    I've changed the schematic , 2nd Draft has the correct preamp wiring

    regards
    Watto
    Fender Amp Freak
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Oct 15, 2020
    Wally likes this.
  13. Watto

    Watto Tele-Meister

    Posts:
    149
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2011
    Location:
    Australia
    here's the layout so far , minus the mains AC and the power section from rectifier to field coil to 6V6
     

    Attached Files:

    powerwagonjohn likes this.
  14. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

    Posts:
    37,244
    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2003
    Location:
    Lubbock, TX
    And so in fact the circuit is much the same as that later Princeton....but for the added tone control in the Princeton, right?
    Good work...
     
  15. Watto

    Watto Tele-Meister

    Posts:
    149
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2011
    Location:
    Australia
    In the first triode , yes, the second triode and the Volume are different , then of course the Field Coil section is different again. You can definitely see the evolution of the circuit that occurred , and I guess you'd have to build it to see how it sounds.

    I've owned a few old 40's Fenders over the years and studied their circuits . there's quite a few different twists and turns Leo put into these early amps that are pretty obvious they were experimenting with the circuit . I'm guessing this one is just that .
    The tone stack on the Woody Deluxe is another - tapping of the plates of the 6V6's and putting high voltage on the tone pot, very dangerous and can't be done these days without special pots , as modern standard pots cannot take that much high voltage on them (I tested it) the carbon burns

    I love this early history of Fender , the evolution he went through is fascinating for an Amp geek like myself

    Watto
     
    Wally likes this.
  16. Watto

    Watto Tele-Meister

    Posts:
    149
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2011
    Location:
    Australia
    Here the Schematic finished. I decided not to trace the Field Coil section, if someone wanted to build one, I'm guessing they'd not use a FC speaker , So I decided to add the 5F2 Princeton power style section and mix the two . You could add an extra Filter Cap to the secondary side of the 500 ohm resistor in the power section if you wanted . I put that 500 ohm resistor in there , because it's doing similar resistance that the field coil would do in that section of the circuit , and what Leo later incorporated

    Anyway, here's the schematic of the Princeton with some slight power changes, I think it's correct
     

    Attached Files:

IMPORTANT: Treat everyone here with respect, no matter how difficult!
No sex, drug, political, religion or hate discussion permitted here.