12 Fret Question

[howlin]

This question is for anyone with a 12 fret acoustic with a 25.5” scale. Is there a noticeable difference when playing open chords in the first position? In other words, is the headstock closer to your body when holding the guitar? Thanks.

 

[Boreas]

This question is for anyone with a 12 fret acoustic with a 25.5” scale. Is there a noticeable difference when playing open chords in the first position? In other words, is the headstock closer to your body when holding the guitar? Thanks.

It depends on the overall size of the body. But usually, if you put a 12-fret and a 14-fret on the same body, the headstock will be closer to the upper bout. The bridge placement is shifted south on the body, giving a different tone as well.

Is there a noticeable difference when playing? Yes, but it doesn't rock your world. It ends up shifting BOTH your left and right hands because the scale length is maintained. But many 12-fret fretboards have a wider nut and this gives you more real estate on the neck.

The Martin 000-16SGT I owned had the long scale length with 12-fret neck. It sounded awesome - more low end - but I never warmed up to it like the shorter scale 14-fret necks. Sold it after just a few years. Probably because of the longer scale and slightly different body shape. The body just felt bigger.

Play first, take out the plastic second.

 

[Freeman Keller]

The answer is you quickly learn to adapt. I have several 12 fret guitars with different scale lengths and I play equally poorly on all of them.

From left to right - single ought (aka parlor) with 24.5 scale, double ought with 24.9 scale, triple ought with 25.4 scale and OM with 25.4. The OM is a 14 fretter, the others are all 12.

A couple of things happen when you make a 12 fret guitar. The shoulders of the upper bout get squared off, the neck moves into the body and frequently the bridge moves down into the body more. Bracing opens up or moves. Some people feel that is preferable.

ps - the slotheads all have the little Martin "dart" volute at the transition between the neck stick and the head. I think I hit that with my thumb for reference when I'm playing in the first position. The OM doesn't have a volute but that doesn't seem to matter.

 

[Peegoo]

The differentiator is the distance between the bridge saddle and bottom of the guitar. That's what pushes the headstock away--or pulls it closer.

 

[Dukex]

This question is for anyone with a 12 fret acoustic with a 25.5” scale. Is there a noticeable difference when playing open chords in the first position? In other words, is the headstock closer to your body when holding the guitar? Thanks.

Yes.

 

[zombywoof]

When I was coming of musical age in the early-1960s 12 fret necks and slotheads on steel string guitars had pretty much disappeared. Anyway, I play 12 fretters with a 24.75", 25" and 26.5" scale. If there is a noticeable difference, it is not enough to have to wait on muscle memory to kick in when moving between them.

 

[zombywoof]

The answer is you quickly learn to adapt. I have several 12 fret guitars with different scale lengths and I play equally poorly on all of them.

From left to right - single ought (aka parlor) with 24.5 scale, double ought with 24.9 scale, triple ought with 25.4 scale and OM with 25.4. The OM is a 14 fretter, the others are all 12.

View attachment 1400639

A couple of things happen when you make a 12 fret guitar. The shoulders of the upper bout get squared off, the neck moves into the body and frequently the bridge moves down into the body more. Bracing opens up or moves. Some people feel that is preferable.

ps - the slotheads all have the little Martin "dart" volute at the transition between the neck stick and the head. I think I hit that with my thumb for reference when I'm playing in the first position. The OM doesn't have a volute but that doesn't seem to matter.

While I don't build them and only play them, as best as I can figure from those I have held in my hands is there are two basic approaches to building a 12 or 14 fret guitar. One is the Martin way which is to leave the bracing pattern and bridge position in the lower bout virtually unchanged while altering the upper bout to meet the neck at the 12th or 14th fret. The other was the Gibson way which was to leave the body unchanged and to alter the bracing pattern and bridge position in the lower bout.

 

[Swirling Snow]

@Freeman Keller mentioned "the shoulders get squared off", but I was thinking the opposite. Just words, I imagine.

Anyway, he posted a great picture as you can clearly see how the guitar on the right has the upper bout squashed compared to the three beside it. One of the changes as we moved from the 1800's classical shape to the modern steel stringed shapes. It gives better access to those two extra frets hanging off the body.

Anyway, as a saleswoman I appreciate your concern. I suspect what you're trying to ask is "What's the distance from the bout to the nut?", assuming you play with the guitar resting on your right leg.

 

[moosie]

There's no change between you and the strings. What changes is the body moves forward, and the bridge is now in a different place. And obviously the clear frets before hitting the body are fewer.

My Washburn parlor is a very unassuming little thing, until it speaks. It's a friggin' cannon. All due to bridge placement.

 

[howlin]

I just got a chance to try a Furch (Firk) OM with a 25.5” scale length. It confirmed what I was wondering as the headstock was definitely closer to my shoulder. It would be great to try some other examples but options are limited in there here parts…