12" & 10" Cabinet with Blend Control

Discussion in 'Amp Central Station' started by KnopflerStyle, May 16, 2021.

  1. KnopflerStyle

    KnopflerStyle Tele-Afflicted

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    Guys, i am designing my next project...

    A 2x 12 / 10 cabinet with a blend control for mix both tones, so i could have 100% 12" or 100% 10" or probably a mix between the 10 and 12 speaker.

    Anyone has tried one? Is that possible or do i missing something?

    I would love to have a 12" and 10" cabinet. I really dont like 10" sounds, but i will give a shoot mixed or at least with the option for particular sounds.

    Since all i need, so i could keep buying heads.

    King Regards
     
  2. uriah1

    uriah1 Telefied Gold Supporter

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    I think gibson had one like that. No blend though. I do like a certain mid punch that comes out better with a 10. The 12 has the extreme of bass and highs. Imho
     
  3. studio

    studio Poster Extraordinaire

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    Open back or closed back cabinets?

    Tens always sound good in pairs. Even 4 x 10's sound awesome
    for certain guitars and certain styles of music.

    I'm sure your project cabinet has many different options!
     
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  4. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

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    The design specifics of a certain speaker are more important in the Sonic results than is the diameter of a speaker, ime. There are bassy tens, bright tens, bassy 12s, bright 12s....and midrange dominance in either diameter.
    As for mixing the two diameters, there is an interesting thing that happens. There are subtle phasing issues that occur due to the difference in the diameters and that results in interesting Sonic results. Of course, an imbalance in the output would lessen that effect.
     
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  5. corliss1

    corliss1 Friend of Leo's Platinum Supporter

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    I throw my idea out there - I don't think there's an easy/cheap solution that would let you dial in one or the other. You'd have to account for impedance and potential heat while the other is partway on or off, and I'm not sure it's a thing.

    I also believe everything is doable, but not sure I've seen such a beast before.
     
  6. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Telefied Ad Free Member

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    Nothing wrong with building that but I judge each speaker not size of speaker.
    Some old time tens had less bass if used alone at lower volume, without adjusting the amp, or used with an amp that lacked bass.
    Tens are all over the map for tone though.

    As far as a blend control, you don't want to just wire up a blend pot AFAIK, maybe attenuate one or the other with something other than a volume pot, but why?

    Choose speakers you like for their tone and then adjust the amp for different sounds.
     
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  7. Hpilotman

    Hpilotman Tele-Meister

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    I owned a speaker cabinet that had 1 x 12 inch speaker and 1 x 10 inch speaker. It was made as an extension cabinet for a Blues Deluxe Amp and wired for 8 ohms. Open Back/ Closed Back convertible. Larger speaker in lower part of cabinet.
    Owned it for about 2 years and it sounded good then sold it to a friend who still uses it. Gives the best of both worlds.
    I think if I ever did another one I would do a 1 x 15 and a 1 x10 cabinet.
     
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  8. KnopflerStyle

    KnopflerStyle Tele-Afflicted

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    Looking for examples...

    [​IMG]
     
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  9. studio

    studio Poster Extraordinaire

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    Didn't Clapton or Pete Townsend use one of these amps?
     
  10. PhredE

    PhredE Tele-Afflicted

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    Would just throw out 2 basic things to consider:

    Efficiency rating. Whichever speaker(s) you eventually select, make sure each has efficiency ratings (say +/- 1 or 2db) of the other. Example: Speaker A 99db, Speaker B 97db. If you use one speaker which is significantly 'louder' than the other, you'll mostly hear the loud one as a result.
    (Duh!, right?)

    Frequency response. This one is more subjective, potentially interesting, but also could lead to unsatisfactory results if some forethought is omitted. Most guitar speakers fall into a nominal response curve about 80Hz (Low E) up to about (5kHz). The low end is fairly predictable and common, and the upper end of the range can vary a bit. It's the response in between that can vary a lot (especially in the handling of the mids, upper-mids). So, the question is: what should the response curve of Speaker A be? and should Speaker B be similar? Overlap somewhat? Dissimilar?
    Different speaker types *can* complement others nicely, but sometimes certain pairs just don't work (sonically) very well.

    Put at least as much consideration re: efficiency and frequency response into the decision as physical size and speaker brand/type.
    (Some of us might also go 'full nerd mode' and look at Q factor, XMax, Fs, etc. too, but for your purposes here, I don't think that's necessary).
     
  11. schmee

    schmee Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    You can easily put a potentiometer on one speaker, thus adjusting that speaker "down" from nominal. The pot must be able to handle the wattage. This was done all the time. So I guess a Fader to spread the load one way or another would be fine. You need to limit how much it actually does to avoid too large an impedance change. I may have some old ceramic faders out there...
    Would a common fader type balance the impedance as you adjust? It can only cut, not add right? SO no.
     
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  12. PhredE

    PhredE Tele-Afflicted

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    Yup, Yup.

    Many PA speakers and bass amp speakers use an L-Pad for that. Of course, segregating certain frequencies for one speaker (vs. the other), might require a crossover or the like.

    Edit: Parts Express (and others) usually offer a 100w 8ohm (sometimes 4ohm) L-Pad for about $10-$15.

    I'll include a link to an example from PA, but note **I am not necessarily recommending this (or any other) unit. More needs to be known about load on amp, wiring scheme, power handling, in order to go to that step.
    https://www.parts-express.com/L-Pad-100W-Mono-1-Shaft-8-Ohm-260-265

    I have used this same part in building a bass cabinet (with Xover+tweeter -- with L-Pad level control).
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2021
  13. Dukex

    Dukex Tele-Afflicted

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    I'd just build a 2x12 or 2x10. Use two different but complementary speakers (Weber 10F150 + 10A125, e.g.). Wire the speakers individually. Build a parallel "Y" cable. Get a Weber Z-Matcher (or something similar).

    Now you have three tonal options: you can play each speaker individually (for their individual tone) or play both at the same time (blended tone).

    Or build a 4x10 cab with four complementary speakers and you will have ten tonal options (each speaker individually or any two in combo).

    009.JPG 011.JPG 007 (4).JPG
     
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  14. PhredE

    PhredE Tele-Afflicted

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    I whipped together a quick graphic to show the quickest/easiest/cheapest way to use 2 speakers with some independent volume control (attenuation) for each speaker. There are a list of caveats/conditions that exist and attempting to do the following requires that a number of things be considered/planned correctly to prevent damage to amplifier.
    Things like: load presented to amp, impedance of speaker(s), wiring scheme (parallel vs serial), quality and appropriateness of L-Pad used, etc.

    In any case, here is the basic idea:

    L-Pad (2).png

    Edit:
    The Eminence Maverick has the attenuator capability built on to the speaker itself:
    https://www.eminence.com/pdf/Maverick.pdf
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2021
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  15. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

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    Iirc, Eminence has ceased production of the Maverick. There is one company that builds a higher dollar approach to an adjustable speaker..Flux Tone. They are pricey and so do not get the exposure that the .Emi FDM speakers got one advantage is that Fuz Tone wil” adapt any speaker one prefers. https://www.fluxtonespeakers.com/how-it-works/
     
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  16. PhredE

    PhredE Tele-Afflicted

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    Yup, seems that I remember hearing that a while back. I still see a few listed online by some retail places, but have never tried one.

    I'll check out the Flux Tones. Looks interesting.
     
  17. Mexitele Blues

    Mexitele Blues Tele-Afflicted

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    You could use an L-Pad to blend 2 speakers, but there will always be a small amount of attenuation present. This configuration would vary the load from 6-8 Ohms, max power split would be 80/20%.

    upload_2021-5-18_21-40-47.png
     
  18. KnopflerStyle

    KnopflerStyle Tele-Afflicted

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    Perfect, just perfect.

    Not as easy as i ve though, but seems to be doable for me.
     
  19. KnopflerStyle

    KnopflerStyle Tele-Afflicted

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    This is the effect that you are talinkg about?

    [​IMG]
     
  20. Mexitele Blues

    Mexitele Blues Tele-Afflicted

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    No, that appears to be using a dual-gang l-pad to attenuate a single speaker. The diagram I posted varies the resistance in series with each speaker.
     
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