1. Win a Broadcaster or one of 3 Teles! The annual Supporting Member Giveaway is on. To enter Click Here. To see all the prizes and full details Click Here. To view the thread about the giveaway Click Here.

12” Speaker for 5F11

Discussion in 'Amp Central Station' started by High Head Brad, Oct 14, 2020.

  1. High Head Brad

    High Head Brad Tele-Meister

    Age:
    49
    Posts:
    236
    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2017
    Location:
    Australia
    I’ve got a 5F11 clone with a Weber 12A125 which I’m finding to be a little bright. Any recommendations for a replacement? Options are a bit limited in Australia and I’d prefer top avoid shipping from the states currently as it is painfully slow (this rules out Weber).

    So far I’ve been able to find a few Eminence models, limited selection of Celestion (Blue and Ruby but very pricey) and WGS.
     
  2. dan40

    dan40 Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    2,151
    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2015
    Location:
    Richmond Va
    The Eminence GA-SC 64 is a very well liked speaker for most Fender circuits. There are quite a few threads here and elsewhere that give high praise to this speaker.
     
    High Head Brad likes this.
  3. David Barnett

    David Barnett Doctor of Teleocity

    Age:
    64
    Posts:
    14,489
    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2003
    Location:
    The Far-Flung Isles of Langerhans
    Celestion G12H30 Anniversary is one I'd describe as "warm but articulate".
     
    Henry Mars and High Head Brad like this.
  4. High Head Brad

    High Head Brad Tele-Meister

    Age:
    49
    Posts:
    236
    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2017
    Location:
    Australia
    Thanks. Both of these are available locally so that is encouraging. I will add these to the short list
     
    dan40 likes this.
  5. jsnwhite619

    jsnwhite619 Friend of Leo's

    Age:
    36
    Posts:
    3,541
    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2013
    Location:
    Georgia
    I've built 2 and used a Cannabis Rex in both. I haven't branched out and tried many other 12" speakers with it, but I never felt like I needed to.





    And here is a C-Rex with a Pro Jr and bigger Deluxe sized cabinet, just for something extra to listen to with the C-Rex.
     
  6. Dacious

    Dacious Poster Extraordinaire

    Posts:
    9,476
    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2003
    Location:
    Godzone
    You're fighting the inherent characteristics of the amp. A 5F11 is a 5D3 with Tremolo. It also has negative feedback - you could try unshipping that to get a bit more Tweedy/middy response first.

    The SC64 10" I have in my Superchamp (right place right time $100 deal in Melbourne) is great from the sounds. Lower wattage, smaller voicecoil and magnet is always going to be a winner.

    The G12H might get you we where you want but they're a bit woody.
     
  7. jsnwhite619

    jsnwhite619 Friend of Leo's

    Age:
    36
    Posts:
    3,541
    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2013
    Location:
    Georgia
    I wouldn't go higher than 68k or so on the NFB. I tried 100k and it was the absolute highest I could stand without painful treble and top end. If it's already too bright setup stock NFB, going much higher than that will probably make the issue worse.

    If you really like the tremolo, a bass-heavy speaker will help it. I ran some test signals through mine one day, and I can't remember where the cutoff was, but as some point that was still well within the usable range of the speaker, the tremolo just doesn't affect anything.
     
    High Head Brad likes this.
  8. High Head Brad

    High Head Brad Tele-Meister

    Age:
    49
    Posts:
    236
    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2017
    Location:
    Australia
    Thanks Jason, I was hoping you would chime in. I will listen to those clips. The Cannabis Rex is available and was already on my short list (based on my feint recollection that you were a fan).
     
    DDickens likes this.
  9. High Head Brad

    High Head Brad Tele-Meister

    Age:
    49
    Posts:
    236
    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2017
    Location:
    Australia
    What is involved in adjusting the NFB? Is this something I should really explore?

    @Dacious why do you think that changing the speaker is fighting the amps qualities? If I can tame the high's a little it will be even better for my taste
     
  10. Dacious

    Dacious Poster Extraordinaire

    Posts:
    9,476
    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2003
    Location:
    Godzone
    I should have asked - are you using the tone control? It's a treble cut on these amps, so winding it back towards zero should make the amp less trebly. Also, is the speaker new? If it's spankers, it's going to sound a little bright and harsh and needs to be played a good few dozen hours to loosen up and smooth out. Be aware, this type of tone circuit is in some ways like a second volume control. If you play with it dimed and volume dimed, it can tend to overpowering treble. It's like Marshalls, as channel gain (volume) goes up, often treble must come down.

    If neither of the above are true, plow on.

    OK - NFB is used by Fender in this design and others to 'tame' the signal and smooth the amp out, because it's selling feature was the tremolo. This amp also has fixed bias using a negative voltage for the grid because this oscillator wiggles the signal coming onto grids. Those two things tend to reduce mids and harmonics - they're why later brown, blonde and BF/SF amps aren't as raw and blatty than 5F1 and 5E3. The 5F11 is sorta like a halfway house between Tweeds and later amps. So it's a bit brighter and sparklier than say a Tweed Deluxe, which is a hairy little monster. It's got some attitude but isn't like the friend who makes everyone uncomfortable because you don't know what gonzo thing he'll do next (5E3).

    5f11 NFB.png

    This resistor on the lead coming from the speaker centre tip feeds signal back into the phase inverter to counter some of the rambanctious nature of these amps. You can play with the value, or put it on a switch or replace with a pot (which is what a presence control is).

    This is a good vid showing the difference although note this is a 5E3 which has a cathode biasing scheme. Your amp is most analogous to the third setting, 56k negative feedback resistor.




    if you're looking to sell the Weber, flick it my way - I'm looking to build a 5F11 with a bare Deluxe cab and chassis I just got hold of.

    Rob Robinette is a user on this site, and his 5E3 page has mod details for this.

    https://robrobinette.com/5e3_Modifications.htm#Switched_Negative_Feedback
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2020
    High Head Brad likes this.
  11. High Head Brad

    High Head Brad Tele-Meister

    Age:
    49
    Posts:
    236
    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2017
    Location:
    Australia
    Thanks for the info.

    The speaker and amp are a few months old now and have been well played so I feel like the speaker should have broken in by now. I might give it a little longer to be sure. I have trialed many different tone settings. When I roll the tone off it gets a bit too dark. Its not so much that the amp is too 'trebley', its more that the top end is a bit harsh too me (for want of a better explanation) and only when I set my guitars volume to 10 (in particular with humbuckers and P90's).
     
  12. Dacious

    Dacious Poster Extraordinaire

    Posts:
    9,476
    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2003
    Location:
    Godzone
    It might be worth getting a 5751 and swapping it in the first posi. It could be adjusted, but if you're looking for comparatively more mids a NFB might get you there. Try clipping it and see what you get. Might save you $150.
     
    High Head Brad likes this.
  13. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

    Posts:
    38,737
    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2003
    Location:
    Lubbock, TX
    Dacious, I have to observe that the 5F11 is not a 5D3 with trem and a negative feedback circuit. The 5D3 has a paraphrase inverter versus the cathodyne in the 5F11, and the 5D3 has cathode bias versus the fixed bias of the 5F11.
    In fact, the 5F11 was a step into a new age for Leo, and it is the basis for all of the Princeton amps that followed...all the way to the
    Super .champs that you and I so enjoy.
    High Head Brad, if you have access to an Eminence Legend GB128, you might like that in your amp. Very good speaker for low bucks....big firm low end, sparkly high end that does not get harsh with overdrive, and an overall warm, woody tone.
    As for the Weber, when someone talks about a Weber I immediately wonder what options were ordered. Also, what are your voltages and the biasing numbers?
     
    High Head Brad likes this.
  14. dankilling

    dankilling Tele-Afflicted Silver Supporter

    Posts:
    1,560
    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2014
    Location:
    Lehigh Valley, PA
    I'm a fan of the WGS ET65 speakers for brittle tweed circuits.
     
    High Head Brad likes this.
  15. jsnwhite619

    jsnwhite619 Friend of Leo's

    Age:
    36
    Posts:
    3,541
    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2013
    Location:
    Georgia
    It might not work. I know a 12ay7 - at least the ones I tried - wouldn't power the tremolo on mine. Had to be a 12 ax7
     
    High Head Brad and Wally like this.
  16. zook

    zook Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    2,752
    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2003
    Location:
    Cochise, AZ
    Dacious, a 5F11 is a 5F10 Harvard with Tremolo. A 5D3 is a very different animal.
     
    David Barnett, jsnwhite619 and Wally like this.
  17. uriah1

    uriah1 Telefied Gold Supporter

    Posts:
    23,681
    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2011
    Location:
    Around
    The WGS ET65 stays warms too , not too bright.
     
    High Head Brad likes this.
  18. schmee

    schmee Doctor of Teleocity

    Posts:
    14,619
    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2003
    Location:
    northwest
    Emi GA SC64 without a doubt!
     
    High Head Brad likes this.
  19. Bob Arbogast

    Bob Arbogast Tele-Afflicted Silver Supporter

    Posts:
    1,763
    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2003
    Location:
    Lowell, Michigan USA
  20. High Head Brad

    High Head Brad Tele-Meister

    Age:
    49
    Posts:
    236
    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2017
    Location:
    Australia
    Anyone tried a Jensen P12Q in a 5F11?
     
IMPORTANT: Treat everyone here with respect, no matter how difficult!
No sex, drug, political, religion or hate discussion permitted here.