100 thousand miles for gas engines

[doghouseman]

I think the advancement of machine work has really impacted the longevity of engines. The cast iron blocks of yester year are all replaced with machined blocks with aluminum heads, tolerances are so much better today meaning that the engines are built so much better.

However, the auto makers know this as well, so out with the old timing chain which very very very seldom had issues and in with the timing belt which has to be changed every 100K or so. So the auto makers made an inference engine with such small tolerances that if you break that timing belt while driving the pistons smash into the heads causing you to pretty much replace the heads and the pistons essentially scrapping your motor.
It amazes me that in the routine maintenance schedule, buried under the standard oil, air cleaner, differential, transmission and other basic changes, they mention the timing belt at like 100K. What they don't tell you is if you do all of the standard maintenance and neglect spending at least $400 changing the timing belt you run the risk of ruining the engine.

Isnt this with certain engines? I think Honda or Toyota have timing belts that need to be replaced. Not sure the American cars are designed like this?

 

[Texicaster]

We have a LOT of advantages over older vehicles. More advanced lubricants and finer machining tolerances. Blackstone Labs provides oil analysis if you're really on top of things. Since I RV and tow a lot I send them a transmission fluid sample every year.

That said I'm curious how these over clocked "ecoboost" are going to fare. Getting more HP from a 3.5L V6 than a 5.7L V8 is taxing on the motors. When I was shopping for a bigger than Tacoma I was intrigued by Ford F150 Ecoboost. At the dealer I expressed concern about a turbo charged motor lasting too long. He assured me they get 100,000 miles!!!!!! I drove right off the lot and bought a Tundra with many 500K miles and still running examples.

Electronic "brains" availability will probably cause most of these vehicles to end up in landfills. I'm not confident I'll be able to get a replacement in 20 years if need be....

 

[buster poser]

Isnt this with certain engines? I think Honda or Toyota have timing belts that need to be replaced. Not sure the American cars are designed like this?

Some Honda and some Toyotas. All Accords since 2018 have timing chains.

This is what happens when you ask guitar people a car question. It would be nice if people could muster the courage to say to themselves "I don't know enough about this subject, I should refrain from posting about it."

 

[ChicknPickn]

I don't know about everybody else here, but I for one know what's best for things, no matter what the manual says. (self deprecation)

Actually, it seems that when people follow exactly what the manual instructs, things turn out well.

But there's always a part of me that asks, WHY do they suggest that?

 

[Ricky D.]

Coolant flush and replace, generally around 70K or as directed. This prevents electrolytic corrosion. Caused by dissimilar metals in a conductive solution.

Brake fluid flush. Old brake fluid eats the seals in the master cylinder and wheel cylinders.

Honda products need transmission fluid replaced every 30K. Just do it. Get the filters at the same time.

 

[39martind18]

Just changed the timing belt on my 2006 Hyundai at 78K miles. It runs like new.

It should be good for another 100K. I bought a Dodge diesel pickup several years ago with just shy of 200K on the odometer. It had been neglected and needed several items corrected: new rack and pinion, power steering pump, brakes shocks and struts, and a new muffler and tailpipe. I thought the transmission was going out, but found out the rear end was almost gone. I had it rebuilt and went with a bit lower ratio to get a bit better fuel mileage. The transmission turned out being solid, but the fluid probably had not been changed. New transmission fluid put into a high mileage usually results in bad slippage problems, so I changed it two quarts at a time, pulling out two quarts of old fluid and putting in two, running the truck about 250 miles and repeating the process until there were 8 new quarts added. The transmission is completely solid, with no slippage whatsoever.

 

[bgmacaw]

Electronic "brains" availability will probably cause most of these vehicles to end up in landfills. I'm not confident I'll be able to get a replacement in 20 years if need be....

Boy, I touched a nerve when I mentioned a similar concern with Fender ToneMaster amps.

 

[telleutelleme]

Only car I've ever put over 100K miles was a Beetle I bought new in 1970. Got to where I could pull the engine, put new cylinder head bolts (self tapping or inserts) and re-install it in a couple hours. Past that my belief the two most important car life things are oil changes and tire pressure. Not only does tire pressure improve tire life but creates less drag on transmission and engine.

 

[schmee]

Today's engines are so superior as far as longevity it's amazing. Change oil, use multigrade oil for sure. There's little else to do now days other than spark plugs. Many engines easily go 200k miles now. Have your tranny fluid chaned and the tranny filter replaced etc every 60k-80k miles.
My 2005 Band Dodge CaraVan has about 129k on it. It goes 3-4000 miles beween oil changes without needing any oil added.

In my early life I worked in service stations and auto dealerships. Some cars back then needed a valve job by 50k miles! Engines wore out early and inside they were gummed up by as much as an eighth inch of black goo! Today with multigrade oil they look clean inside at 100k miles!

 

[Blrfl]

The most likely point of failure on modern vehicles seems to be the various computerized controllers. ... (scowling at you GM).

That may be the case on modern GM cars, but most the rest of the industry seems to have figured it out. (Toyota totally blew it with the watchdog timers in their ECUs and people were killed as a result. I've studied that case extensively and the evidence against them was damning.)

The increased dependence on controllers for smooth operation also means that old school "shade tree" mechanics shouldn't be doing DIY maintenance work on modern vehicles.

Here's another perspective on that: there's a lot less maintenance to be done in the first place.

Points? Gone. Mechanical distributors? Gone. Carburetor floats, valves and jets? Gone. Ham-fisted fueling? Gone. Mechanical high idle? Gone. Mechanical idle enrichment? Gone. Rube Golberg-inspired emission controls? Gone. I don't miss having to futz with any of that stuff.

 

[bgmacaw]

There's little else to do now days other than spark plugs.

Do any modern consumer vehicles still have spark plugs? My off-the-cuff guess is that there aren't any.

 

[bgmacaw]

My 2005 Band Dodge CaraVan has about 129k on it. It goes 3-4000 miles beween oil changes without needing any oil added.

Lucky. I had a 2005 Chrysler Town & Country that had 2 engines fail on it. I got rid of it when the 3rd engine was failing with the same problem, a defective piston design issue.

 

[schmee]

Some Honda and some Toyotas. All Accords since 2018 have timing chains.

This is what happens when you ask guitar people a car question. It would be nice if people could muster the courage to say to themselves "I don't know enough about this subject, I should refrain from posting about it."

Do any modern consumer vehicles still have spark plugs? My off-the-cuff guess is that there aren't any.

I wont buy a car with a rubber timing belt. Yes some have them still, others have gone away from it.
Yes cars have spark plugs. I dont know of any gas cars that dont.

 

[RetiredUnit1]

We sold a 61 Dodge Van at 480,000 miles, the guy drove to New York and called us 10 years later to let us know it was at 1,000,000 miles without a rebuild. That was a 318cu in V8.....

 

[schmee]

Lucky. I had a 2005 Chrysler Town & Country that had 2 engines fail on it. I got rid of it when the 3rd engine was failing with the same problem, a defective piston design issue.

I do hear complaints. This is my THIRD Grand Caravan in the lasst 21 years. I have never had to do anything other than normal maintenance on all 3. I drive them to 140k miles or more then get another.
One band trip it was loaded to the ceiling with gear and 3 of us rode inside. We had to go across the mountain passes and it was summer with the AC on. The V6 got 20-21 mpg that trip. Not bad for a van.

 

[bgmacaw]

Yes cars have spark plugs. I dont know of any gas cars that dont.

I should have Googled it first. I was thinking electronic control systems, like coil packs, vs the old distributor/coil system.

 

[clickitysplit]

My ‘04 Scion xB has 288k miles on it now. Would have about 340k but for the pandemic. Fuel and water pumps died within a week of one another at 225k. Have been diligent about oil changes as this is a small engine (1500cc) and it works hard - full synth every 5k miles. It’s on it’s 3rd set of plugs, coolant, and transmission fluid. 2nd set of belts - a bit squeaky in the winter.

 

[Blrfl]

I should have Googled it first. I was thinking electronic control systems, like coil packs, vs the old distributor/coil system.

The plugs are still there. They're less-visible because they've switched to coil-on-plug, which bolts on a small coil pack atop each plug. They're fired by a signal from the computer. It's a better arrangement because, among other things, there's no voltage loss in the plug wires, no joints in the caps to fail and no risk of energy getting drained off if the wires get wet.

It's also safer because, if one coil fails, you're only down one cylinder and can the engine can still be run long enough to get the car off the road. A coil failure in an old-style ignition system would bring the car to a dead stop wherever it happened to be.

 

[schmee]

I should have Googled it first. I was thinking electronic control systems, like coil packs, vs the old distributor/coil system.

Yea, there is some weird stuff going on with coils etc. My Ford truck has a coil for each cylinder and it's down inside the head in the spark plug wire!
They seem to run about $75-$100 each to be replaced! Dont ask how I know! I had a rough running issue (barely ran) and 3 of them were bad. The mechanic bill was about $500!

"Better" is in the eye of the beholder I guess. A set of wires used to be $20, a coil $15 and plugs $1.05. Now it's likely $350

 

[teletail]

I have a Nissan Pathfinder with about 180,000 miles on it. I just take it in and have the regularly scheduled maintenance done. The owners manual tells you what you need to do. I’m not sure what the confusion is.

Of course, there’s always “that guy.” I had a friend that did NO maintenance, not even oil changes. His odometer broke so I’m not sure how many miles he went before it finally died, but it was a lot. Not recommended.