1. Win a Broadcaster or one of 3 Teles! The annual Supporting Member Giveaway is on. To enter Click Here. To see all the prizes and full details Click Here. To view the thread about the giveaway Click Here.

$1,000--Tone Master or Tube?

Discussion in 'Amp Central Station' started by IMadeYouReadThis, Oct 25, 2020.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. trxx

    trxx Tele-Afflicted

    Age:
    42
    Posts:
    1,559
    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2019
    Location:
    Between reality and imagination
    Yes, if these amp were modular and standardized like desktop computers, they might be worth looking at in terms of sound and features. But as they are right now, I'm not interested at all. Same goes for modern active speakers for live and studio. I have no interest in gear that is non serviceable.
     
    Rocky058 likes this.
  2. Ignatius

    Ignatius Tele-Afflicted

    Posts:
    1,804
    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2004
    How come no one is jumping all over the Bugera amps as hard to service and throw-away :D;)? Those things are rather notorious for their poor build quality. But they have tubes in 'em, so that's different right? ;)o_O
     
    Pixies2005 and IMadeYouReadThis like this.
  3. Durtdog

    Durtdog Poster Extraordinaire

    Posts:
    7,897
    Joined:
    May 19, 2004
    Location:
    Tennessee
    They're also less than half the price.
    Maybe a more disposable price point?
     
    Rocky058 and Ignatius like this.
  4. bryanburnett

    bryanburnett TDPRI Member

    Age:
    40
    Posts:
    22
    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2018
    Location:
    Charleston, sc
    There is a used British made Vox ac15 with an Alnico blue on Reverb right now for $950...not my listing, no affiliation, but if someone doesn't buy it before I come up with a grand it will be mine...Oh yes, it will be mine.
     
  5. Sax-son

    Sax-son Tele-Holic

    Age:
    69
    Posts:
    592
    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2019
    Location:
    Three Rivers, CA
    I have a 1981 Silverface twin reverb(end of the era) model that everybody bitches about being the worst of this model It is stock, heavy as hell, louder than loud, 135 watt version, but point to point wiring. However, I have matched it with good speakers and a couple of pedals that make it sound wonderful. I wouldn't part with it for anything now. I am glad it has wheels on the bottom so I can push it around, but I don't take it on gigs anymore. Way too much fire power for small gigs. They can still be had for some reasonable prices. You may want to check some out if you are a Twin Reverb fan. Otherwise, I would look at other amps before pulling the trigger on these. You might be happier in the long run.
     
  6. drumtime

    drumtime Tele-Holic

    Age:
    69
    Posts:
    761
    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2018
    Location:
    the mountains of Virginia
    It took a while for computers to become standardized. In the early days of PCs there were a number of different operating systems before it settled down to DOS and MacOS. The internal components were also wildly unstandardized. That was one of the strong arguments for getting a Mac in those days.

    Maybe SS guitar amp components will follow suit.
     
  7. trxx

    trxx Tele-Afflicted

    Age:
    42
    Posts:
    1,559
    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2019
    Location:
    Between reality and imagination
    Of the modelers which I have owned, played, and heard elsewhere, the highs and mids of all of them do that. It's why modelers don't cut through live and can sound peaky up top. Some are worse than others it seems, but what they demonstrated is what I would expect from any modeler at best. Some of them are really nasty in the highs.
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2020
  8. trxx

    trxx Tele-Afflicted

    Age:
    42
    Posts:
    1,559
    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2019
    Location:
    Between reality and imagination
    This isn't a Bugera thread. Also, it isn't only Bugera who is building crappy quality amps. Lots of modern tube amps are built like crap. It's one major reason why I went with a Ceriatone for my last amp (a plexi clone), which is handwired, very well built, and is in the neighborhood cost wise as mass produced pcb amps. In fact, the price was bang on with a Marshall SV20H but with alot more features than the Marshall.
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2020
  9. trxx

    trxx Tele-Afflicted

    Age:
    42
    Posts:
    1,559
    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2019
    Location:
    Between reality and imagination
    That was one big reason for the success of pc. Standardized modularity (and cost). I guess we'll see on whether modern amp tech goes that way eventually. Interesting here is that except for the desktop, modern computing devices have went the opposite way (back to the stone age of computers).
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2020
  10. chris m.

    chris m. Poster Extraordinaire

    Posts:
    8,329
    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2003
    Location:
    Santa Barbara, California
    Thanks for posting the comparison from That Pedal Show. It really did a good job of showing the differences. These are the differences I experienced in doing a side by side comparison of a reissue Twin with a TM Twin. The TM sounds more trebly, more presence, with just a little bit of fizz, especially on chords, and less midrange oomph and girth.

    But there are some points roughly around the 20 minute mark where the TM DR does sound pretty darn good. With judicious use of pedals and careful settings, it is a perfectly serviceable amp and would work. It only really falls down when you compare it to the real thing, IMO. To me, even on a YouTube video, using good quality earbuds, the differences are quite stark. That's why I'm surprised when some people say they sound the same....but not everyone hears things the same way.

    All that said, while I'm not ready to plunk down my cold hard cash on one yet, if I were to show up at a gig and a TM DR or Twin was provided in the backline, I think I would be perfectly fine with giving it a go. I'm sure I could dial it in to get a very workable sound. Maybe not quite as nice as a couple of my current tube amps, but plenty good enough to get the job done. The audience doesn't care or notice, but I would notice....especially when playing alone, playing at higher volume, or when recording.
     
  11. MilwMark

    MilwMark Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

    Posts:
    11,588
    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2013
    Location:
    near Arnold's
    What I liked about my TMDR was that live it had more mids and sat in the mix better, without requiring excess volume, than any of the various BF/SF/DRRIs I owned. Go figure.
     
  12. JayDee

    JayDee Tele-Holic

    Posts:
    500
    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2009
    Location:
    Missouri
    As a former TMTR user, I suggest the Princeton Reverb. Some people notice the differences between the TM amps and the tube counterparts. Some don't. After a lot of jobs with the TM, I gave up and realized that they're not for me.
     
    IMadeYouReadThis and Ignatius like this.
  13. Ignatius

    Ignatius Tele-Afflicted

    Posts:
    1,804
    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2004
    I like my TMDR a lot but my next amp might be a Princeton. I’ve always wanted one in the stable.
     
  14. 11 Gauge

    11 Gauge Doctor of Teleocity

    Posts:
    11,540
    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2003
    Location:
    Near BWI Int'l
    This is why I've resisted falling into the trap of A/B'ing any two (intended to be very) similar pieces of gear, and it doesn't just have to be amps - it can be guitars, pedals, or whatever. I just need something that is within an acceptable spectrum of sounding appropriately similar. This especially becomes the way to go if the gear is being used for gigs, because all of the appealing little nuances of the better sounding piece of gear tend to disappear when you add in a band.

    ...And IMO, this A/B'ing stuff can get especially hairy with amps. There is just so much potential variation between any two amps just based on tubes and speakers, not even taking into account the specific type of speaker or how broken in it is, or what brand of tubes, how many hours they have on them, what they're biased to, and so on. At least with a non-tube amp, the variations due to tubes are removed from the equation. So if the non-tube amp sounds acceptably good on day one, it will probably sound just as good, or maybe even slightly moreso, when the speakers are finally broken in.
     
  15. chris m.

    chris m. Poster Extraordinaire

    Posts:
    8,329
    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2003
    Location:
    Santa Barbara, California
    They ran both amps through the same speaker cab in one iteration to control for that variable.
     
  16. jageya

    jageya Tele-Holic

    Posts:
    577
    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2007
    Location:
    usa
    sorry but the tonemaster amps are way over priced. Yea well built cab and nice speaker but its circuit boards and those are cheap. Its a major profit for them more then the tube versions i would bet.
     
    stevemc likes this.
  17. Frodebro

    Frodebro Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

    Age:
    51
    Posts:
    16,136
    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2012
    Location:
    Seattle
    The market always dictates the price, and the TMs have been flying out the door as fast as they come in. The cost is more than just the components, it also covers the R&D and company overhead. These aren't repackaged Mustangs, and they are not built to compete at that price point. These are higher end units with higher quality components, and not just the cabinets and speakers.
     
  18. jageya

    jageya Tele-Holic

    Posts:
    577
    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2007
    Location:
    usa
    Yea like i said its just my opinion. Tesla model s and x and y and 3 have been selling like mad here in colorado and i see them everywhere but they are overpriced to me as well yet those owners dont think so so good for them. Price will never be agreed upon by everyone because of diff socio economic classes of people and views on whats worth their $. Just cause its flying out the door doesnt mean much to me: i have played them 3x now for a few hours each time.
     
    IMadeYouReadThis and Frodebro like this.
  19. Frodebro

    Frodebro Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

    Age:
    51
    Posts:
    16,136
    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2012
    Location:
    Seattle
    I hear you there! I personally would not have any use for a single-channel Blackface amp as that's not really my thing, so $1,000 is way more than I would be willing to spend on one. I do have a Kemper, however, and it has been an absolute joy for six years and running.
     
  20. Chiogtr4x

    Chiogtr4x Poster Extraordinaire

    Posts:
    7,859
    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2007
    Location:
    Manassas Park, VA
    If I can ask, how much did you pay for your TMDR?
    I owned a real '68 DR and had to sell ( $$!!) Will always miss that amp, and could not come near getting one back, or even a '65 DRRI

    Up the road I could see being interested in the Tone Master, with its ' Close to DR tone,' added features, and light weight.
    Thanks!
     
IMPORTANT: Treat everyone here with respect, no matter how difficult!
No sex, drug, political, religion or hate discussion permitted here.


Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.