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$1,000--Tone Master or Tube?

Discussion in 'Amp Central Station' started by IMadeYouReadThis, Oct 25, 2020.

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  1. mfguitar

    mfguitar Tele-Afflicted Silver Supporter

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  2. Durtdog

    Durtdog Poster Extraordinaire

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    Never mind.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2020
  3. NoTeleBob

    NoTeleBob Tele-Meister

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  4. deytookerjaabs

    deytookerjaabs Friend of Leo's

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    What a weird thread.


    All of the sudden tube amps are for "guys who don't play out."

    WTF Planet you dudes live on? That's some funny stuff.


    I had a BOSS VF-1 (when it was the latest/greatest) and a Music Man 210 which was a combo amp the size of a dual showman head. Fairly light easy to carry amp with alnico speakers and loud AF. The VF-1 was a modestly programmable processor so you could really dial things in nicely, had a whole bunch of my dialed in patches on it. That combination can get you 99% of the "tonemaster" series alone after proper finagling.

    At a studio I subbed at I had to (technically didn't have options) use the then-new "Cyber-Twin" head that went direct into the board. There were about 5 patches I was allowed to choose from when I was allowed to touch it. It recorded fine, the clean sound would be hard to tell it was a digital thing on first listen, the overdriven patch they had me use was indeed cheesy AF.

    I also had a rack for a while that was basically a 90's-esque marshall head in a rack format along with digital verb unit and an older analog effects rack that had like 4 built in pedals with a footswitch. It did indeed rock and was easy to carry anywhere in it's 4U because every venue at that time had a cab.

    I've used damn near all the high end stand alone & plug in software too as I have friends with the hook up. So much out there, you could buy a THINKCENRE and a decent AD/DA, pop them in a rack, preset the puppy with a midi footswitch then get great tones straight into the PA. And, I bet that rig will outlast some of these new digital amps/modelers.

    But, I had/have all that crap because I experiment with different (inexpensive) stuff for fun and insight.

    When I gigged, I've almost always used tube amps the past 20 years. And, mostly ones that are at least 50 years old at that yet they basically rely on 1920's technology. Using 1920's technology in 2020? That's a good thing. Some of y'all can continue to wank over the latest greatest Kemper version 2035 VIRTUAL GUITAR SIMULTION that will be better than the best tube amps consumer spiel BS. Oooh, so impressive, lol. Did they really nail it this time? I can see the clickbait now!!


    I'll continue to plug a chord into the wall and watch 12 archaic filaments light up and shake a few speakers that survived the cold war...not for any reason other than I want to because my aesthetic sensibilities are still important to me. If they weren't this wouldn't be art.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2020
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  5. superjam144

    superjam144 Tele-Afflicted

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    tube.
     
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  6. superjam144

    superjam144 Tele-Afflicted

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    You know how much I miss my Hot Rod Deluxe?!? I had to get rid of it, I'm a bed room player. Blues Jr. for the last 4 years sounds warm and playable in a small room thank goodness.

    That tube warmth is something I have yet to hear a solid state amp perfect. Hard to explain it. I'll look into these tone masters though. I have heard solid states made to emulate tube sounds that sounds amazing. One was called the spark amp.
     
  7. superjam144

    superjam144 Tele-Afflicted

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  8. superjam144

    superjam144 Tele-Afflicted

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    Tubes have more dimension and WARMTH. IMO.

    Warmth seems to be the only word I can pinpoint to describe that tonal quality that only tubes can give.

    Modelers just sound thin to me.

    But obviously the tonemaster is LIGHT and easy to move. Perhaps the best option for a band member.

    I don't know how many times I transported my junior, and had tubes malfunction shortly afterwards.. Gets old quick.
     
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  9. Ronzo

    Ronzo Tele-Holic

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    Wow. I wonder if I sounded like this 26 years ago, when I was 42 years old and knew everything.
     
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  10. ChicagoFats53

    ChicagoFats53 TDPRI Member

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    Good luck.
     
  11. trxx

    trxx Tele-Afflicted

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    Lots of people head cab their old heavy combos. Lots of people use attenuators and install PPIMV's these days. Speakers and microphones have always sounded better for guitar amp sounds than direct outputs. All very practical stuff that lots of people know. If that makes me sound like a know it all, maybe you are removed from modern times. How about sticking to talking amps and not dragging things into the mud?
     
  12. trxx

    trxx Tele-Afflicted

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    A Showman head weighs a little more than a Princeton Reverb and a little less than a Deluxe Reverb. I think most people have no problem dealing with the weights of those amps.

    No one likes having to retube our amps. But if you like the sounds provided by tube amps, it's part of the ride.

    PPIMV's can work for some amps and some people. And there are different types of them, so it's not necessarily a hate one, hate em all deal. Attenuators can work for some people too, and there are also different takes on those.

    If you find the sound of a direct out to be acceptable, sure it would be handy to have. Lots of people like the sound of a miked speaker though, and a direct out isn't a replacement for that type of sound. And a cable will need to be ran either way, so it isn't as if placing a mic in front of an amp is a big hassle.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2020
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  13. DrPepper

    DrPepper Friend of Leo's Ad Free Member

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    Wait for the TMPR, it will happen.
     
  14. PHutch

    PHutch TDPRI Member

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    I've been using Fender amps since when I was 14 when got a used '63 blonde tremolux w/2x10 cabinet from a high school guy that wanted a Super Reverb. I've had Fender tube amps my entire rock/disco/lounge/country career, right now I have a CVR with two JBL/E110s in it, a PRRI with a JBL/E110 in it, and the DRRI with a JBL/D120, all three amps have selected tubes and have seen consistant gigging use until last October, when I got my Tone Master Deluxe Reverb. I haven't used the others since. I'm 72 years old so I was playing rock and roll before some of you guys were born, I'm giving you the grandfather talk. These things really work well, sound great, and nobody knows the difference. And I like the speaker, and I haven't liked anything but JBLs since I was 20 The touch sensitivity is remarkably good and while not as good as the wonderful CVR, is just like the PR and DR. (and as to touch, guys, a lot gets lost when you use pedals or use wireless) And light weight is as good as wheels. I don't feel like carrying heavy stuff around anymore but that's not why I use it. It sounds great. You can dial up great Fender sound, whether you clean or you crank. Right now I have the modified reverb firmware patch in it, which makes the Reverb like I have in the others. And if you have a TMDR you literally have a Princeton with a 12-in speaker and a Deluxe Reverb. I'm seriously considering getting the Twin.
     
  15. olddawg2

    olddawg2 TDPRI Member

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    Master Volume. The VT22 has a 2xEL84 output section in a push/pull configuration.. Class AB. The 5 watt is a Single Ended Class A configurations. I have an Epiphone Valve Junior that’s about the same thing but has no tone controls. I’ve actually gigged with 5watt amps like that cranked and boosted. The only trouble I had with my Bugera V22 in 5 years was I wore out a couple of sets of output tubes. Gigged it a couple of times a week for the whole time I’ve owned it. It’s funny. I was playing in a band for years with a guy that had to have his JCM2000 and oversized cab to get “his” sound. Took up half the damn stage. My V-22 cranked with a mic on it sounded better and was a LOT more versatile. It also didn’t break my back. Club owners don’t like to see half stacks and Twin Reverbs much anymore. Too many bands blow out the room.
     
  16. Ignatius

    Ignatius Tele-Afflicted

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    Last edited: Oct 31, 2020
  17. Ignatius

    Ignatius Tele-Afflicted

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    The "get the real thing" argument is a common one in this thread and it's usually without any kind of objective basis. Many people who offer this (or who trash the TMs in other ways) have never even seen or plugged into a Tone Master, so in my opinion it's a fairly worthless point of view and piece of advice. However, I agree 100% with the boldfaced part of your statement above. While I find my TM to be a useful tool to own, your point about tube amps' uniqueness is what makes them so cool (or arguably, a bit problematic and frustrating at times). I think there's a case to be made that both types of amps have their place. I will own both. It doesn't have to be an either/or.

    Opinions (and prejudices) are often subjective and not objective. This thread is a good case study in that.
     
  18. Ronzo

    Ronzo Tele-Holic

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    Yes. It does.

    There are a lot of people in this forum who have a lot of experience with a variety of amps and modelers. From the lower end, such as Mustang I, to Kempers and Fractals. Some of these people range from studio professionals, to national/international touring pros, to regional act players, to local band members, worship players, and hobbyists. Everyone has a set of needs, wants, and likes. They are not the same for everyone.

    If you’re loading in & out your own equipment without roadies, a carting company, or helpful friends, every unnecessary pound saved helps you on the gig you’re playing and the gig you have later the same day or the next day. Whatever you choose is up to you. Everything is a trade off - financially, preferred sound, ease of interface to FOH, required volume - the list goes on. Stating categorically that one approach is better for needs other than the ones you have is arrogant and off-putting.

    Please don’t present your opinion as fact.
     
  19. PBO Blues

    PBO Blues Tele-Holic

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    Well, it looks like it's time for me to unwatch this thread. The OP got the info he needed pages ago and it's just degenerated into the same-old-same-old forum thrashing.

    Honestly, if I took any of this seriously I'd toss out all my gear; my landfill-destined, overpriced, old man's Tone Master, my boxy PCB Blues Jr., my bland '90 Peavey Classic 50, my sacrilegious double-cut Tele, my poser's relic LP Jr, my SCN-loaded Strat, and my Vietnamese handwired AC15, along with every other foreign built device that I purchased out of my monumental ignorance. It would save me the unending agitation of playing it and wondering...

    And I'm sure it would make everyone else feel better about themselves.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2020
  20. Joe M

    Joe M Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Couldn't have said it better, PBO Blues.....closed....
     
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