.022 or .047 cap?

Discussion in 'Tele-Technical' started by stefanhotrod, Oct 20, 2021.

  1. Zepfan

    Zepfan Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

    Posts:
    11,276
    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2013
    Location:
    Horn Lake, MS
    I like .022 caps for HB's and P90's, but smaller singles do best with the .047 for me.
    It's all about personal tastes and a .033 may be a good compromise.
     
    El Tele Lobo and stefanhotrod like this.
  2. voskarp

    voskarp Tele-Holic

    Posts:
    823
    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2017
    Location:
    Uppsala, Sweden
    Yes, but theoretically, when you take something away, what remains is shaped by what is taken away...so...?

    And even if the signal goes through the cap, can you actually hear any difference?
     
    stefanhotrod and bebopbrain like this.
  3. havlma1

    havlma1 Tele-Meister

    Posts:
    171
    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2017
    Location:
    Middle of Europe
    Unless you have a no-load tone pot there is alway bit of signal going through. For this reason the cap value has some influence on the tone even when the tone pot is dimed. Just try it by yourself, try different caps and see. In my case I like 0.033 or 0.047 cap values, but it depends on the guitar and pickus, each guitar needs something different.
     
    stefanhotrod likes this.
  4. AJBaker

    AJBaker Friend of Leo's

    Age:
    34
    Posts:
    4,299
    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2010
    Location:
    Switzerland
    I like .047. When turning down a bit, it takes away some of the midrange and really pulls the guitar out of the mix for when I just want to strum along.


    I generally prefer the sound of a tone pot turned halfway down, there's something happening with the interaction of the cap and the resistor (the pot) that works for me.
     
    stefanhotrod and howardlo like this.
  5. AJBaker

    AJBaker Friend of Leo's

    Age:
    34
    Posts:
    4,299
    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2010
    Location:
    Switzerland
    With smaller caps (especially below .022), I find that you don't get much effect until the pot is turned down quite a ways, at which point the treble cut off is rather abrupt. Cool for a 60s Clapton lead tone, but I find the guitar is still too present in the mix.

    .022 and .047 both work well, but I find that strats and teles work better with 047 (or .033).


    Also, a no load pot is a no brainer for me. Gives the option of extra brightness with no downsides.
     
    stefanhotrod likes this.
  6. takauya

    takauya Tele-Meister

    Posts:
    218
    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2011
    Location:
    Forest
    You can't do good tone swell with a .022.
     
  7. Old Deaf Roadie

    Old Deaf Roadie Friend of Leo's Gold Supporter

    Posts:
    3,966
    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2017
    Location:
    Goonieville, OR
    I prefer to stick with original factory schematics and parts schedules and learn how to make it work rather than modify the circuitry. It becomes too easy to have a variety of guitars that all sound similar. I would be amiss if I didn't state that I have a kit guitar I use as a test bed for wiring mods & learning new repair techniques.
     
  8. sjtalon

    sjtalon Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

    Posts:
    11,061
    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2006
    Location:
    Upper Peninsula of Michigan
    Shocker, only two pages so far :lol:

    I call the cap a tool the tone pot uses in its job. The higher the value, the faster/darker things will get as you turn the pot from about 6-0.

    It's a player preference thing, do you want a subtle tone change? I don't use the tone much so like .022 in almost everything (250Kpot). Nice thru the sweep.

    If you want it more aggressive....then .047 or even as high as .1 µF. Use some jumpers and experiment.

    And ftmp, being on 10, that cap doesn't really mean jack. Sure the electrical engineers, doctorates, purists can say it does on paper, but to the ear, or most ears if they can TELL a difference.................we are talking difference...........and does that difference really amount to anything good or bad to worry about ?? So just have to make a point, or prove there point.


    So it's (value) based on how you want the tool to work, what results do you need.

    I always say, YOUR geetar, YOUR ears!

    Happy pickin'
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2021
    stefanhotrod and voskarp like this.
  9. John_B

    John_B Tele-Meister

    Posts:
    375
    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2020
    Location:
    Texas
    I strongly agree that you try a .033 cap. This would be a simple and quick test.

    I favored big paper in oil caps forever but my ears tell me that Sprague Orange Drop caps sound just as good.

    I use an OD .033 cap with my SD '54 A5 bridge pup to give it a little more treble and an OD .068 cap with my Bootstrap Extra Crispy A3 bridge to give it a little more mid range. My alder body Tele required this and I now have the two best tones I have ever found for this alder Tele.
     
    stefanhotrod likes this.
  10. jackal

    jackal Friend of Leo's Platinum Supporter

    Posts:
    2,425
    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2010
    Location:
    mojave desert
    I like the 50s Gibson wiring with a no-load tone pot and a .01 or .015 cap.
     
    stefanhotrod, bebopbrain and GPoint like this.
  11. Chicago Matt

    Chicago Matt Friend of Leo's

    Age:
    72
    Posts:
    3,437
    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2014
    Location:
    Woodstock
    I like .047 only because I get a big difference in tone with 1/4 turn. When performing I don't want to have to twist the knob so far. At least I think this is how it works. :)
     
    stefanhotrod and Gris like this.
  12. Wooly Fox

    Wooly Fox Tele-Meister

    Posts:
    135
    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2021
    Location:
    Crowborough, United Kingdom
    Currently have a tone cap in my position 5 (neck Charlie Christian) of .033 and .022 on my tone control on Squire Fat Telecaster. I think 250K CTS pots make my guitar darker but does work well for dirt/fuzz. Tried .047 and found it too dark for my purposes. Was going to use .001 but the. Thought the tone control would be pointless when that low.

    Bridge bypasses tone control in position 1 (I use a 5 way superswitch) and that sounds amazing.
     
    stefanhotrod likes this.
  13. EsquireOK

    EsquireOK Poster Extraordinaire

    Posts:
    5,861
    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2011
    Location:
    U.S.A.
    0.022 uF – the kind that cost about a nickel – on a linear taper pot. Gives you a very gradual treble rolloff, resulting in less sensitivity to movement in the upper range of the pot. Lets you fine tune very slight treble adjustments.
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2021
    stefanhotrod likes this.
  14. mjcyates

    mjcyates Tele-Holic

    Age:
    57
    Posts:
    654
    Joined:
    May 4, 2010
    Location:
    Louisville, KY
    Never really paid much attention to it until I read this thread. I compared two of my teles, one had .047 the other had .022. I now know that I prefer .022. I like the taper/rolloff better.
     
    El Tele Lobo and stefanhotrod like this.
  15. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Telefied Ad Free Member

    Age:
    62
    Posts:
    30,586
    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2010
    Location:
    Maine
    For me advising a client, I say turn the pot all the way down with .047 and tell me if you would ever use that setting.
    If that's darker than you would ever use, try a .033 or a .022 depending on how far rolled off you find useful.

    The smaller cap that shunts or passes at a higher frequency, delivers a longer sweep of usable tone settings.
    The bigger cap that shunts or passes at a lower frequency, delivers a darker tone when the pot is fully rolled back, and delivers more treble cut sooner, so the sweep is quicker and more extreme.
    Conversely, the .022 does not get as dark with the pot rolled all the way down, and is not as dark at 1/4 turn, so the settings are more gradual and less sudden.

    Take the ear test further if you find even a .022 combined with pot rolled back all the way, to be darker than you would ever use.
    I actually like a .01 better than .022 and have no use at all for a .047 that gets so dark that I can only use a very small portion of the pots range.

    Some players love the darker settings though, and need a lower frequency cap to get the darker settings.
    Believe it or not, one of my Esquires has two caps to the tone pot on the switch, and those are .01 and .001.
    With the .001 cap switched into the tone circuit, I can roll the pot all the way down and it just tames the treble a little bit, which i find more useful than any fully back setting with .022, .033 or .047.
    Then I can switch to the .01 cap with pot still all the way back and it's to me a pretty dark tone in terms of what I do with an Esquire.

    Let you ears decide how dark you might want to go with that control.
    I think though also many of us set amp to sound fairly bright and clear with neck pickup, then have trouble with the bridge pickup being "too bright".
    If that's the case, you cannot use your bridge pickup without rolling off the tone, you could choose any number of bridge pickups that would suit you better.

    Just as it's fair to say the full range of the tone pot can and should be useful, I'd say the full tone pot range of the bridge pickup can and should also be useful.
    If your guitar parts deliver settings you have no use for, that can be adjusted!
    There is simply no reason to keep using a bridge pickup you can't stand the tone of by itself!
    And there is no need to have a tone control you only like 1/3 the rotation of.
     
    stefanhotrod, GPoint, Ron C and 2 others like this.
  16. rstaaf

    rstaaf Tele-Afflicted Gold Supporter

    Age:
    58
    Posts:
    1,230
    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2010
    Location:
    Here
    You have peaked my curiosity, gonna have to pop the control plate on one of my Partscasters, flip a dip switch and play it at .015 this weekend. :cool:
     
  17. pi

    pi Tele-Meister

    Posts:
    402
    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2003
    Location:
    bay area, CA
    I like lower value caps. But this is a such a personal preference, you really need to try both and decide for yourself.
     
  18. kafka

    kafka Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    2,387
    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2013
    Location:
    Closer than you'd expect
    I do that on my Les Paul.
     
    stefanhotrod likes this.
  19. KelvinS1965

    KelvinS1965 Tele-Afflicted

    Posts:
    1,231
    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2014
    Location:
    Wokingham England
    I do something similar, except I use 0.015uF on the neck and 0.022uF on the bridge on my SG and Les Paul.

    I always seem to drop down one step over the typical values on my guitars as I find that it gives me a more useable roll off: I built a '61 style Strat earlier this year and put 0.022uF on the tone control, combined with a 500K pot. I have to turn it right down to make it sound dull and I often use 3-4 which I wouldn't do on a more typical 0.047uF/250K single coil set up. A couple of songs we play I turn it up to 10, but mostly its set somewhere in the middle so it gets used quite a bit.
     
    stefanhotrod and telemnemonics like this.
  20. Sea Devil

    Sea Devil Friend of Leo's

    Age:
    59
    Posts:
    3,016
    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2006
    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    .047s are dangerous on stage. It's easy to overshoot a quick adjustment to the tone knob in mid-song.
     
    stefanhotrod likes this.
IMPORTANT: Treat everyone here with respect, no matter how difficult!
No sex, drug, political, religion or hate discussion permitted here.