Thin sounding strat... What to do?

[Chriss945]

Okay, I mainly play a tele with a Duncan Jazz in the neck, a barden middle pickup, and a vintage stack lead pickup. And it sounds great, rich and full and I love it.

My strat has Lindy Fralin vintage hots in, and it just has no bite to it, everything just sounds 'plinky plinky' (this is of course a technical term). Its all wired correctly so it's not electrical, I think it's just the difference between the two that are causing issues. The strat doesn't drive as much as the tele either, with pedals, I kick in my big overdrive and there's nothing there at all.

As I can't afford any new pedals etc, I'm going to post I picture of my pedal board. If anyone has any suggestions on fattening this strat up then that would be great!



Going into a fender CVR modded to 63' vibroverb specs with eminence legend 1058k speakers.

 

[Bruxist]

Have you played with the pickup heights?

 

[hemingway]

Maybe the issue is that it's a strat - they all sound pretty thin to me.

 

[rokdog49]

By nature, a single-coil equipped Strat will sound thin and have lower output when compared to most Tele's.
I have D.Allen Hot 54/59's in my Strat and they are designed to give more bottom for rock on the heavy strings with the traditional chime and quack of that era on the higher strings.
Although they do that admirably, they are still "thinner" than either of my Telecasters.
As far as pedals go, the only thing I do is crank up the volume to get the gain I need.
I play my Strat relatively clean with music that calls for that almost all of the time because that's where it shines. Think about guys like Mark Knopfler or the Techno-pop tones of the Eighties or the R&B guys of the Sixties and the like. I treat it as a "different animal", but that's just me.

 

[GuitarGeorge]

Turn the amp up and the guitar down.

Have one of the guitars' Tone controls wired to the bridge pickup and turn it down.

In fact, turn all the Tone controls back to zero and bring them up slowly until it sounds good.

Do this and plinkiness and thinness will be gone.

 

[tecelaster]

Perhaps it's because your Tele is so suped up that normal coils (even hotter wound Fralins) just can't compete?
Look at it another way - if your setup -amp EQ, gains and pedals - were tweaked around the Strat as your main guitar, then plugging in the T would probably clip everything - but not necessarily in a good way.

I've been experimenting with the PU heights on my T - stock ones - and have found the sweet spots where I can get exactly the sound I want from both the neck and bridge. The overall output level has dropped noticeably and my PRRI now has to go up a notch to get the same levels (this is with no pedals). Problem is that when I plug in a P90 TG the level is much higher and I have to back off the guitar's volume pot to get a similar level.
With the pedal board in, I can use an active Sansamp DI to boost the Tele signal to the same as the the P90 job.
So the choice (in my opinion ) is - roll offs T's volume pot or use a clean boost pedal to bring up the Strat.

 

[gitapik]

I might add:

Try gigging with the same amp/pedal board on a stock Strat and an LP with Duncan Pearly Gates pups. Talk about tonal differences...

You'll get a thicker sound with a Twangbanger in the bridge pup. Still get that beautiful quack in the 4 position with that, as well. Duncan SD-1 pups are really sweet in the neck and middle positions.

If you love a stock Strat (I do) and you're just bringing that guitar to a gig, then you can set your amp and pedals to get a lot of fantastic sounds. Compressor and OD are very important there, ime. But as soon as you add another guitar to the same amp/pedalboard, you're gonna have to make some adjustments.

 

[JD0x0]

1. Where do you set the EQ when using this guitar?
2. Adjust pickup heights.
3. Wire for either a master tone, or move one of the tone controls to the bridge.
4. Consider adding a steel baseplate to the thinnest sounding pickup(s)

It's probably a matter of tonestack EQ. More mids.

FWIW I run a strat with Tonerider Surfari's (Low output 50's type strat set)
I have it wired with 500K volume, 1Meg tone (this should make for a REALLY bright/icepick/shrill tone) but alas, with how I EQ my rig, the guitar actually sounds incredibly thick with distortion, and I wouldn't exactly call it thin, when playing clean either. This is straight into my tube amps. No boosts, no graphic EQ's, no compressors, etc, to 'beef' up the tone, and the volume and 'tone' controls often stay dimed. So I'd say start there.

With passive tonestacks and single coils I almost always setup my EQ with the mids roughly 3:00 to completely dimed. Treble usually gets turned back anywhere from 9:00 to 11:00 and bass usually sits lower than 12:00. Of course it depends on the amp, and a Vibroverb will have scooped out mids, because of the tonestack circuit. BF/SF amps are already incredibly scooped in the mids, IMO. You need to dial the treble and bass back quite a lot or you're going to be lacking quite a bit of midrange content which, IME, will make guitars sound thin, especially single coils.

Notice the large 'scoop' in the mids, with the treble and bass at 'noon' Further increase bass and/or treble from here would only dial in a bigger 'scoop' in the mids.

If you dial the treble and bass back a bit, the 'scoop' becomes less pronounced and the tone will appear to have more 'girth' but the BF/SF tonestacks being inefficient, you may notice some loss in 'gain'

 

[rokdog49]

Turn the amp up and the guitar down.

Have one of the guitars' Tone controls wired to the bridge pickup and turn it down.

In fact, turn all the Tone controls back to zero and bring them up slowly until it sounds good.

Do this and plinkiness and thinness will be gone.

Just for fun, I'm going to try this. I already have my tone control wired to the bridge in my Strat which IMHO is a "must" mod. If it works as you suggest, it's a good starting point for anyone.

No matter what though, the single-coil Strat is still going to be a thinner sounding guitar when you make a direct comparison to a Tele.

 

[WilburBufferson]

No matter what though, the single-coil Strat is still going to be a thinner sounding guitar when you make a direct comparison to a Tele.

Is this true (rhetorically, he asks)? I've tried to get back into strats, after selling mine a few years back. Recently I've been playing a telecaster deluxe and other telecaster variants and just can't seem to find the sweet spot on a strat since. I WANT to love them, but just can't seem to make it happen...

 

[Chriss945]

Mostly some excellent advice here!

In answer to some questions:

My bridge is already wired to the tone, and already has a steel plate underneath!

My amp doesn't have a mid control, only treble and bass, so the mid is static, but if I turn the treble and bass down I just get mud - lack of clarity!

I also use my volume pot as my rhythm and lead volume control, so it has a treble bleed. (470pf and 100k in parallel - this doesn't add treble) so I can't really roll it back to tame treble.

I love the clean sound of a strat, and i appreciate its a different guitar to a tele, and I treat them differently in terms of effects and eq.

What I want to find out is how people like Eric Johnson, john Mayer, Clapton, Hendrix etc get that fat tone with vintage style pickups! Like obviously it can be done. I know a large extent is volume, but on my last gig with the strat, the volume was on 7 on my amp and there was just no power behind the clean tone! It sounds more full and powerful at low volume. How does it not translate?

Should I just buy a fuzz face and be done with it?

 

[Barfly]

Maybe try it without the bleed circuit.I like the fact that turning my strat vol. down a taste cuts some highs. I have been using the amp cranked guitar volume down recipe for many years and it works great and is good advice

 

[Derek Kiernan]

Mostly some excellent advice here!

In answer to some questions:

My bridge is already wired to the tone, and already has a steel plate underneath!

My amp doesn't have a mid control, only treble and bass, so the mid is static, but if I turn the treble and bass down I just get mud - lack of clarity!

I also use my volume pot as my rhythm and lead volume control, so it has a treble bleed. (470pf and 100k in parallel - this doesn't add treble) so I can't really roll it back to tame treble.

I love the clean sound of a strat, and i appreciate its a different guitar to a tele, and I treat them differently in terms of effects and eq.

What I want to find out is how people like Eric Johnson, john Mayer, Clapton, Hendrix etc get that fat tone with vintage style pickups! Like obviously it can be done. I know a large extent is volume, but on my last gig with the strat, the volume was on 7 on my amp and there was just no power behind the clean tone! It sounds more full and powerful at low volume. How does it not translate?

Should I just buy a fuzz face and be done with it?

Clapton went active, Hendrix used a high capacitance coiled cable. Production standards back then got a more consistent and higher quality pickup without shorts, which is perhaps part of why you feel your tone is muddy when turning down controls.

 

[Chriss945]

Maybe try it without the bleed circuit.I like the fact that turning my strat vol. down a taste cuts some highs. I have been using the amp cranked guitar volume down recipe for many years and it works great and is good advice

I would love to, but it's my primary volume control, as I don't own a volume pedal. I've tried guitars without bleeds and can't get that funky rhythm tone without it. I don't understand how people control their volume without a volume pedal or using their guitar volume.

I should mention I play in funk, Motown, steely dan tribute, and rock bands. All of that requires a sparkly funky rhythm tone!

 

[Radspin]

+1 on adjusting the pickup height and seeing if that helps.

 

[Chriss945]

+1 on adjusting the pickup height and seeing if that helps.

Oddly enough this is the one thing I didn't try with the strat, they're set to what I would call average height, not too low but not super close! I will mess with that a bit in the morning.

 

[gitapik]

Clapton went active, Hendrix used a high capacitance coiled cable. Production standards back then got a more consistent and higher quality pickup without shorts, which is perhaps part of why you feel your tone is muddy when turning down controls.

They also played very loud.

And the pups were made with better materials, from what I've heard.

 

[gitapik]

Is this true (rhetorically, he asks)? I've tried to get back into strats, after selling mine a few years back. Recently I've been playing a telecaster deluxe and other telecaster variants and just can't seem to find the sweet spot on a strat since. I WANT to love them, but just can't seem to make it happen...

A stock Strat is a different sound and feel than a stock Tele. You can set things up differently to get it "right" for you (I'm finally using the bridge pup for leads now that I got the Twangbanger)...but sometimes a particular guitar just doesn't resonate with what makes you tick.

 

[Chicago Slim]

12k humbuckers will fatten your sound. Plus, the outer coils sound like a Tele, and the inner coils have that out of phase Strat sound. I may never go back to single coils.


image removed

 

[telemnemonics]

Oddly enough this is the one thing I didn't try with the strat, they're set to what I would call average height, not too low but not super close! I will mess with that a bit in the morning.

A Strat just isn't a Tele, and they seem to need a little more from the amp to sound good, plus letting go of any expectation of having the meat of a Tele.

While pulling the strings out of tune is a concern, I would start with the high E magnet of the bridge pickup almost touching the string when fretted at the 21st fret.
The pickups will be at a pretty good angle to keep the bass side down.

And while you feel a need for the treble bleed to get your bright rhythm tone, maybe you need to look at the Strat as a different instrument from a Tele- with an exceptionally bright rhythm tone in stock form.

If you can't get a good sound at full volume, maybe the treble bleed isn't an issue.

I find Strats harder to set up pickup heights on, but maybe I just want them to sound like Teles.
Pickup heights can really make or break a Strat for a Tele player.

True die hard Strat players are easier to please in that area, I guess they choose and adjust their rigs to work with delicate sounding guitars.

How is your trem? Tone can get lost there.