How's James Taylor playing this?

[Fiesta Red]

Technique, Schmecnique…if it sounds good, do it.

I’ve never heard anybody—even non-fans such as myself—say he sounded bad.

I copy different people’s technique(s), and adapt them to my style and abilities…I don’t care if it’s classical, modern, right or wrong—

If it sounds good, then it is good.

 

[jfgesquire]

"How's James Taylor playing this"?

A question I've asked myself many times, regarding this song and others...

He, like other artists, have made deals with the devil. No other plausible answer.

 

[nvilletele]

Technique, Schmecnique…if it sounds good, do it.

I’ve never heard anybody—even non-fans such as myself—say he didn’t sound bad.

I copy different people’s technique(s), and adapt them to my style and abilities…I don’t care if it’s classical, modern, right or wrong—

If it sounds good, then it is good.

Hmm, that double negative in your second sentence makes it sound like you are saying that every person you’ve ever heard comment on JT says he sounded bad.

I am guessing maybe that wasn’t your intent (?)

 

[loopfinding]

I wasn't talking about ear, feel, patterns, sounding like classical music, touch, etc. I was talking strictly basic right hand technique: positioning and finger usage...which is NOT, as you state "just good guitar technique" across the board. It is guitar technique rooted in classical music, which might work well for some modern styles of music, and might not for others. It obviously is not classical guitar music, and I wasn't stating as much. I said clearly that his fundamental plucking technique was based on classical right hand plucking technique...because it is, plain as day, 15–20 seconds. Thumb and three fingers, using his nails...and modifying/adding other techniques as needed to suit his style and his song. But, bottom line, the answer to your question is right there in the video. He is plucking with his fingernails.

i am not a classical major but i almost was. i agree with you, he even has the slightly dropped wrist. he's just holding the guitar horizontal instead of at an angle - so it can't be true enough for a classical guitar drill sargeant, but that is clearly the basis of it.

by contrast, if you look at tommy emmanuel or john fahey, i would definitely not say those are based on the classical position...those are "folk" in that they're almost like borrowed from banjo right hand grip, with pinky often resting on the body.

i would say as a general rule, for sustainy-airy stuff, the classical position works better. but it doesn't have as much power as the semi-underhanded style. of course, the semi under-handed style gets a little too staccato at certain points. the classical style is a little more inherently "grabby" (even though you try to train that out of yourself) and the underhand in general is just more automatically "thwacky."

 

[Mike Simpson]

 

[EsquireOK]

i am not a classical major but i almost was. i agree with you, he even has the slightly dropped wrist. he's just holding the guitar horizontal instead of at an angle - so it can't be true enough for a classical guitar drill sargeant, but that is clearly the basis of it.

by contrast, if you look at tommy emmanuel or john fahey, i would definitely not say those are based on the classical position...those are "folk" in that they're almost like borrowed from banjo right hand grip, with pinky often resting on the body.

i would say as a general rule, for sustainy-airy stuff, the classical position works better. but it doesn't have as much power as the semi-underhanded style. of course, the semi under-handed style gets a little too staccato at certain points. the classical style is a little more inherently "grabby" (even though you try to train that out of yourself) and the underhand in general is just more automatically "thwacky."

Thank you. That is all quite true. I was never a music major, and never wanted to be. But I did study formally for over a decade, including three years of classical guitar, with my instructors being Stephen Jones and Almer Imamovic. I'm not an expert, but also not a rube shooting crap out of his ass on the subject, by any means.

James Taylor isn't using strictly classical guitar technique, and I never said he was. But it is indeed the basic core of how he is moving his fingers to pluck the strings, at least in this video. That was my only point.

 

[loopfinding]

Thank you. That is all quite true. I was never a music major, and never wanted to be. But I did study formally for over a decade, including three years of classical guitar, with my instructors being Stephen Jones and Almer Imamovic. I'm not an expert, but also not a rube shooting crap out of his ass on the subject, by any means.

James Taylor isn't using strictly classical guitar technique, and I never said he was. But it is indeed the basic core of how he is moving his fingers to pluck the strings, at least in this video. That was my only point.

it isn’t entirely a trivial distinction either, i don’t think. trying to play some travis type stuff with overhand sounds about as wrong as using like debussy type sustain on ragtime piano. on the other hand, you’d have to be superhuman to play something like recuerdos de la alhambra with an underhanded position.

 

[Axegrinder77]

did he have something on his finger tips? thumb pick ? or maybe just tough fingers-

Yeah the video shows how he reinforces his nails with strips and glue. He feels that finger picks lose the feel of the string.

 

[getbent]

James is a travis picker. the times I have seen him he uses just thumb and fingers. on this recording, he is well mic'd with the highs pronounced. He also features those accented parts and the mids and lows are softer and less focused.

I've played James' music for most of my life, his songs kind of always have 3 parts... all the parts are cool and distinct and he reuses specific chord voicings that 'sound like him'.

I recently taught my son some JT songs and it inspired him in the way James found his voice on guitar.

 

[Fiesta Red]

Hmm, that double negative in your second sentence makes it sound like you are saying that every person you’ve ever heard comment on JT says he sounded bad.

I am guessing maybe that wasn’t your intent (?)

…and I’m guessing you are either an English teacher or a self-appointed Grammar Police Officer.

You understood the point I was making; therefore, you only made this post to be arrogant or make yourself feel superior.

How’s that working for you? Do you feel a little better about yourself?
Good—I’m glad I could assist with your self esteem.

PS—I corrected my poor grammar, so the burning in your eyes will be soothed.

 

[Sax-son]

In my opinion, James picking style is actually an evolution of the banjo style that instead of using finger and thumb picks he has adapted a hybrid style using modern technological product. I agree with him on using finger picks you lose that touch that you need to really feel what you are doing. I have that same problems using picks in general. It's like I don't have control on where my fingers are going.

I agree that his style is "not" classical with the only exception that his picking fingers are touching the strings. In classical playing, your left hand is also using different vibrato techniques as to play the nuances in the notation.

 

[Sax-son]

James is a travis picker. the times I have seen him he uses just thumb and fingers.

Yes! That's a good way to describe it.

 

[nvilletele]

…and I’m guessing you are either an English teacher or a self-appointed Grammar Police Officer.

You understood the point I was making; therefore, you only made this post to be arrogant or make yourself feel superior.

How’s that working for you? Do you feel a little better about yourself?
Good—I’m glad I could assist with your self esteem.

PS—I corrected my poor grammar, so the burning in your eyes will be soothed.

Actually, you got me all wrong.
But thanks for revealing yourself.
And truly sorry to have upset you (not sarcasm, just sincere).

 

[Axegrinder77]

i am not a classical major but i almost was. i agree with you, he even has the slightly dropped wrist. he's just holding the guitar horizontal instead of at an angle - so it can't be true enough for a classical guitar drill sargeant, but that is clearly the basis of it.

by contrast, if you look at tommy emmanuel or john fahey, i would definitely not say those are based on the classical position...those are "folk" in that they're almost like borrowed from banjo right hand grip, with pinky often resting on the body.

i would say as a general rule, for sustainy-airy stuff, the classical position works better. but it doesn't have as much power as the semi-underhanded style. of course, the semi under-handed style gets a little too staccato at certain points. the classical style is a little more inherently "grabby" (even though you try to train that out of yourself) and the underhand in general is just more automatically "thwacky."

Good classical technique is not "grabby" at all in my experience. It's a deep topic, but the fingers flex and slide off the string. This is mainly why I think JT isn't really playing classical technique... Because no player in my college or that I've listened to employs that technique. It's just not suited to classical repertoire.

Then again, to some players, anything finger style is "classical" haha

 

[getbent]

Yes! That's a good way to describe it.

I got to sit in an intimate setting with James many years ago (80's) and he referred to himself as a travis picker...

he innovates and plays 'james chords' which make him magic along with a great voice and wonderful lyrics....

the video Mike Simpson linked is fantastic.

 

[GGardner]

Forgive me if someone already posted this--but I remember hearing that he inverts the fingers on his A chord, which is why he can get so much bite on the song's signature A-chord hammer-on -- because he's hammering on with his index finger, not his ring finger. I don't know if that's an indication that he was self-taught, but it sounds great and clear as a bell.

 

[Axegrinder77]

I just ordered an at2021 condenser mic. I have a feeling a dedicated guitar condenser will really help. I notice he has placed in an interesting position, perhaps to pick up more bass. That Gibson sure sounds great. Then again, James could make a plastic toy ukelele sound amazing.

 

[Fiesta Red]

Actually, you got me all wrong.
But thanks for revealing yourself.
And truly sorry to have upset you (not sarcasm, just sincere).

I apologize for assuming you were being arrogant. I have been dealing with a group of twenty guys who all want to play “Gotcha!” and I probably projected that trait onto you.

My post may have been poorly worded, but you understood it and it wasn’t necessary to point out my mistake.

…And it wasn’t necessary for me to bite back.

Good Vibes to you.

 

[schmee]

Thumbnail I think. Some people have those thick sturdy nails, me. nah!
oh.... and heroin..

 

[PhredE]

Good classical technique is not "grabby" at all in my experience. It's a deep topic, but the fingers flex and slide off the string. This is mainly why I think JT isn't really playing classical technique... Because no player in my college or that I've listened to employs that technique. It's just not suited to classical repertoire.

Then again, to some players, anything finger style is "classical" haha

With classical (nylon strings), the fingers and requisite amount of force allow that motion rather fluidly (to pluck 'through' the string so to speak). Not so with steel strings. They don't displace very far and are more taut -- so the motion is shorter and stiffer as a rule. The hand position and motions might mimic one another, but the range of motion(s) is/are where the biggest differences lie.
So, yeah, there is quite a bit of truth to what you say there.

Also, and sort of following on to what loopfinding was referencing, the 'closed hand' vs more open hand approach implies free stroke vs. rest stroke. The more free stroke - oriented approach will yield the long arpeggiated notes but using a rest stroke won't work as well most of the time in a song like F&R.

*Personal note -- a guitar class teacher I had in high school made us learn that tune not long after it was released (she was a big folkie). In comparison to much other music, songs like F&R can be learned pretty efficiently with only TAB (eg; no requirement to read music notation -- 'sheet music' -- really).

Update: Watched for YT that Mike Simpson linked. That guitar projects amazingly well for a cedar top guitar. Kudos to the builder.