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Asher Guitars WD Music Products Amplified Parts Mod Kits DIY Nordstarnd Pickups Warmoth.com
Asher Guitars WD Music Products Amplified Parts Mod Kits DIY Nordstarnd Pickups Warmoth.com

you talked me into it: my first neck

Discussion in 'Tele Home Depot' started by papaschtroumpf, Aug 6, 2017.

  1. R. Stratenstein

    R. Stratenstein Doctor of Teleocity

    Aug 3, 2010
    Loganville, Ga.
    A solution of vinegar with steel wool dissolved in it will ebonize oak to a very dark black. Obviously the grain won't look the same but you can fill it.

    I could link you to where I did this, except that Photof--kit destroyed the photos in my thread.
     

  2. papaschtroumpf

    papaschtroumpf Tele-Meister

    465
    Nov 24, 2015
    Colorado
    That sounds interesting, I'll search for it, although I think red oak would be interesting looking in its own right.
     

  3. fenderchamp

    fenderchamp Tele-Holic Ad Free + Supporter

    672
    Jun 17, 2008
    omaha
    I got my nut files for christmas one year too!!
     

  4. R. Stratenstein

    R. Stratenstein Doctor of Teleocity

    Aug 3, 2010
    Loganville, Ga.

    Here's a link to a video on the process. Walnut, in my experience, blackens the best, but oak will also blacken nicely.



    And I agree with you; red oak is a very handsome wood in and of itself.
     

  5. papaschtroumpf

    papaschtroumpf Tele-Meister

    465
    Nov 24, 2015
    Colorado
    Well shoot, shower started misbehaving today, so I spent most of the day with a plumbing project.
    While I was rumaging for tools in the garage I found a piece of 2"x1/4 oak I forgot about from a cigarbox guitar project. It has a couple dark streaks that make it somewhat unsightly, so I think it's serendipity that the topic of ebonizing came up above. It seems like a perfect candidate. That means I need to figure out a way to radius and slot fretboards after all, or ebonizing a piece of oak will do me no good.
    It think I can make a 12' radiusing block, at least willing to give it a try. I read about Zona saws and miter boxes that seem to be much more like my budget, still researching.

    ADHD strike again, I haven't even put saw to wood on this neck that I'm already thinking about the next one :) I think I mentioned a baritone?
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2017
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  6. papaschtroumpf

    papaschtroumpf Tele-Meister

    465
    Nov 24, 2015
    Colorado
    wow, 3 pages into this thread and I finally start making sawdust!

    I spent over an hour trying to figure out how I was going to use my bandsaw to get that 13 degree angle cut. I ended up with something like this:

    13degreesetup.jpg

    A small 1x2 test piece of pine did fine, although I the piece wasn't perfectly perpendicular to the table as the guide moved along the track. Unfortunately my bandsaw is a POS, or at least it's not suitable for the job, the track wobbled in the guide, then about 3 quarter through the cut, the blade seized. I backed it out and tried again several times and I was never able to cut through.

    This is what the cut looks like on the top side, and it looks even worse on the bottom as the blade wandered:

    whatamess.jpg

    So in addition to being underpowered, I suspect I may not have my blade tension right since the cut was't perfectly vertical.

    I finished the job with a hand saw, and I would probably have gotten a better result if I had started with just a hand saw, and that's saying a lot given my skill with a handsaw!
     

  7. papaschtroumpf

    papaschtroumpf Tele-Meister

    465
    Nov 24, 2015
    Colorado
    So I sticky taped both pieces on top of each other to get me a rough idea of what the angle should have looked liked.

    I did some rough shaping with a hand rasp, then took it to the Rigid ROSS in belt sander mode to get a mostly straight surface, then I finished it with this straight bar sander with stick-on sandpaper. I was able to get a flat continuous slope that was "close enough" to 13 degrees:

    doitbyhand.jpg


    The seam seemed to be pretty good after 1/2h of hand sanding, unfortunately between the imprecision of the bandsaw rig and some loss due to rasping and sanding, the short piece is now too short to be used "on top", see first option in this piucture courtesy of Crimson Guitars:

    [​IMG]

    So I had to use the "alternate" method. This will put a joint line in the middle of the headstock, but I will either add a head plate (if I can find a cheap suitable wood at home depot to cut one from) or I will ignore it since this headstock will be painted.

    My blank was only 24" long, I highly recommend that you give yourself a couple of extra inches if you can for your first try so you don't have to worry about getting the cut at just the right spot
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2017

  8. papaschtroumpf

    papaschtroumpf Tele-Meister

    465
    Nov 24, 2015
    Colorado
    Here I decided to go for it and glue the two pieces together, we'll see int he morning if I was successful in making something that looks even remotely like a clean scarf joint. At least I'm doing this with some Home Depot maple and not some expensive mahogany.

    goingforit.jpg

    then over dinner, I realized that I intended to make the headstock piece thinner, since right now it's a full 3/4" and is probably more than what tuning machines are designed for. It's going to be harder to take the thickness down now that it's glued at an angle. Dang!
    I think I can clamp it and use my router to thin it from the top, but I need to make sure it won't push the nut too far back and mess with the scale length.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2017

  9. papaschtroumpf

    papaschtroumpf Tele-Meister

    465
    Nov 24, 2015
    Colorado
    I think even if my bandsaw had been powerful enough, I would have been better off with clamping a fence at the desired angle rather than my complicated and failed setup.
    Also, I have a miter saw, but the shallowest cut I can dial in is 45 degrees, which is why I didn't use it, even though that should have provided a nice straight cut.
    Next time I will likely try and make a jig that lets me cut at the right angle on the miter saw, although I'm not sure what that looks like.

    It's days like today that make me wish I had a tablesaw.


    Anyway, this was about 4 hours of my day today just to accomplish this. we'll see what the "reveal" looks like tomorrow.
     

  10. R. Stratenstein

    R. Stratenstein Doctor of Teleocity

    Aug 3, 2010
    Loganville, Ga.
    Lookin good.:)

    One positive about the "alternate" scarf joint is that your E and e tuning machines create big ole through-bolts to hold the scarves together. Not that the glue won't hold them, but just the same, who doesn't like a little free insurance?
     
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  11. Macrogats

    Macrogats Tele-Meister

    Age:
    50
    300
    May 15, 2017
    Auckland, New Zealand
    That's a very good point. Makes a lot of sense too. Definitely will keep that in mind when I'm bold enough to try making a neck. ;)
     

  12. papaschtroumpf

    papaschtroumpf Tele-Meister

    465
    Nov 24, 2015
    Colorado
    Well crap, it looked good during dry fit, but something slipped during the actual glue up.
    I had wax paper to prevent gluing the caul blocks to the neck but that prevented me from seeing things weren't as tight as I though.

    oopa.jpg

    I guess I'll be heading back to the Home Depot and get another piece of maple and start over even though I could probably hide the gap in a painted neck.


    EDIT: I bet I know what the problem is: the back cowl was only 1 1/2" tall rather than use a block that was at least as tall as the full piece, so it applied pressure unevenly and even though one since was a perfect fit, the other gaped open a little bit rather than squeeze teh glue out.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2017

  13. richa

    richa Tele-Afflicted Ad Free Member

    Apr 23, 2016
    Washington
    I remember the first time I did a scarf joint. This brings it all back. Hang in there! :)

    I think treating this as a practice run and having another go might be a reasonable idea. But in the interest of extracting all the practice you can you might consider cutting that joint and cleaning up the surfaces to have another run at your glueing setup.

    On the band saw - have you checked out some of the youtubes on saw setup? A good setup, a sharp blade, and going slow can make a huge difference. But using a handsaw and the ROSS sounds pretty good too.
     

  14. R. Stratenstein

    R. Stratenstein Doctor of Teleocity

    Aug 3, 2010
    Loganville, Ga.
    Disappointing, but stuff happens, learn and press on. Is there enough wood to saw the bad joint apart, clean it up and give it another go?

    BTW, I think your analysis of what happened is spot-on. Clamping pressure as even, and full as you can make it, should produce good results for attempt #2.
     

  15. guitarbuilder

    guitarbuilder Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

    Mar 30, 2003
    Ontario County
    Make angled cauls that cause the clamp pressure to be straight as opposed to making the pieces slide too.
     
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  16. papaschtroumpf

    papaschtroumpf Tele-Meister

    465
    Nov 24, 2015
    Colorado
    I had the long piece clamped to the working surface with multiple clamps and a stop block for the short one, but obviously that want enough.
    I'll try again...
     

  17. RickyRicardo

    RickyRicardo Friend of Leo's

    Mar 27, 2012
    Calgary, Alberta
    Not sure if you've seen this. I'm hoping to get to my first scarf joint soon and thought this was a good way of doing it:
     

  18. papaschtroumpf

    papaschtroumpf Tele-Meister

    465
    Nov 24, 2015
    Colorado
    The answer is obviously more clamps! :)
     
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  19. guitarbuilder

    guitarbuilder Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

    Mar 30, 2003
    Ontario County

    Not really. Good surface preparation and planning is the key. I use a large c clamp to hold down the shaft, a medium c clamp to keep the peghead from moving forward, and 2 clamps for the clamping of the cauls should do it.

    Make sure the cauls are close to the size of the surface you are gluing but not much bigger. You may want to get in there and wipe off glue.

    On the cauls, I use one c clamp that is longer than the other so they don't interfere with each other.

    Do a dry run or two and get the clamps close to what you need so you don't have to sit there spinning them as the glue sets up.

    Make sure the glue surfaces are flat. Check them with a straight edge. I usually take a scraper to the center of them just to make a really slight hollow.

    More clamps isn't the answer to anything. You'd be surprised how much pressure a couple clamps puts out. They aren't a substitute for good joinery.
     

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