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Wiring Help needed

Discussion in 'Tele-Technical' started by Meteorman, Dec 8, 2018.

  1. Meteorman

    Meteorman Tele-Holic

    768
    Dec 23, 2012
    State College PA
    In midstream, my build went from a tele with two TVJones Filtertrons to an Esquire with one TVJones.

    I still have two control holes in the top (rear access cavity); the larger one was gonna be the pickup selector, but obviously that's not needed now.

    [​IMG]

    What I'd like to do, if it's possible, is incorporate the Eldred Esquire tone mod, except use a 3-way LP-type toggle instead of the 3-way tele switch.
    I have a stacked Vol/tone pot for the top hole.

    The mod is this:
    [​IMG]

    Can anyone help translate the tele switch circuit (above) to an LP-type toggle switch layout?
    Can it be done ?
    Much obliged for any help !!!
    /mm
     
  2. hamerfan

    hamerfan TDPRI Member

    Age:
    56
    8
    Dec 8, 2018
    Germany, Bavaria
    Not exactly, because the tele switch is a double row switch and the LP switch has a single row. If you wire it reverse (input vs output) and put the smaller cap to ground, you get a similar configuration.
     
  3. Meteorman

    Meteorman Tele-Holic

    768
    Dec 23, 2012
    State College PA
    I think I see this now.
    Seems like i need a DPDT on-on-on toggle ?
     
  4. Deaf Eddie

    Deaf Eddie Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

    ALTERNATELY, you could wire it like a vintage Gretsch tone toggle switch.

    You'll need a center OFF 3-way toggle. A regular Gibson toggle won't work for this idea.

    3-way on/OFF/on mini-toggles are easy to find.

    IF you want a BIGGER switch (for esthetic reasons), here's one I found with Google that should work. Or, find another you like better...

    To install, wire the guitar as if it had NO pickup selector or tone pot- just a volume:
    Pickup > volume > output jack.

    Run a lead from the center/common lug of the tone toggle to the hot side of the circuit at the volume pot, on the same lug as the lead from the pickup.

    Solder one leg of the 0047pF cap on one side of the tone toggle, and one leg of a .022uF cap on the other. The other leg of both caps would be soldered to ground. That's it.

    The center OFF position is like throw #1 on the drawing you posted - no load, no tone attenuation. In the other two throws, the 0047pF side will give you the "Eldred Mod" tone (slight roll-off of the highs), and thrown the other way the .022uF will give you a more mellow tone, similar to having the tone pot you show rolled off at a fixed point - but not as muddy as a regular tone pot idea.

    FWIW, I find using a .022uF without a pot is a more usable tone, to me - far less muddy than you would think. PLUS, it would be very easy to change values, if you're not happy with it - caps are cheap. Smaller value for more mids, less mud; bigger value for less high and mid, more mud.
     
  5. Art VanDelay

    Art VanDelay Tele-Holic

    724
    May 20, 2018
    Arcata
    Love the Jetson's pickguard!
     
    jdiego and Steve Holt like this.
  6. Meteorman

    Meteorman Tele-Holic

    768
    Dec 23, 2012
    State College PA
    Ha! yeah thanks.
    I had to customize one that hid the neck pickup route and avoided the bridge pickup.
     
  7. Meteorman

    Meteorman Tele-Holic

    768
    Dec 23, 2012
    State College PA
    Thanks Deaf Eddie.
    I will keep this in hand, altho right now i have a concentric vol/tone pot I was gonna use.
    As you suggest, so far I am struggling to find a full-size on-on-on DPDT.
    I’ve read various opinions on the Gretsch “mud switch”... but i hafta fill that hole somehow !!!
     
  8. hamerfan

    hamerfan TDPRI Member

    Age:
    56
    8
    Dec 8, 2018
    Germany, Bavaria
    You can do it with a LP switch, but you have the small cap in parallel with tone pot cap.
     
  9. gkterry

    gkterry Tele-Meister

    343
    Dec 19, 2014
    Paris, IL
    Esquires can make full use of a Tele style pickup switch. I have mine wired so that fully back the pickup goes straight to the output jack which makes for a brighter, louder tone - good for lead lines. The middle position goes through the volume and tone control. The fully forward position is a modified Eldred design from Premier Guitar website ( see https://www.premierguitar.com/articles/The_Modded_Eldred_Esquire_Wiring) but with a 2200pf cap and a .022uF tone cap. That makes the 3rd position a wee bit darker than the middle but still very, very useful. It is also a bit quicker to crunch. The different tone cap value allows for a more usable range for tone control. I would recommend something similar to this. Don't use the LP switch. You can still get 3 distinct (or more) yet usable sounds out of one pickup.
     
  10. Meteorman

    Meteorman Tele-Holic

    768
    Dec 23, 2012
    State College PA
    Yup, I get that gkterry. I lifted that schematic pic from that Premier Guitar article.
    But if you notice my finished body, a tele switch is out of the equation now. I’m in toggle space now.
     
  11. Meteorman

    Meteorman Tele-Holic

    768
    Dec 23, 2012
    State College PA
    Yeah I think that’s the inevitable result with a single pole toggle. That would seem to defeat the cocked wah option.
    I’m hoping to find an on/on/on double pole.
     
  12. moosie

    moosie Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

    Age:
    62
    Jul 18, 2010
    Western Connecticut
    Assuming you can live with a (mini) toggle of some type (not Gibson), a simple on-off-on SPDT will do it. Or a DPDT (as shown here), and ignore the other bank.

    The reason you can't do it with a Gibson is that the middle position isn't OFF, but both ON, like 2&4 on a simple Strat switch.

    Screen Shot 2018-12-08 at 8.21.06 PM.png
     
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  13. jdiego

    jdiego TDPRI Member

    Age:
    35
    3
    Nov 24, 2018
    Chile
    the same thought came to my mind after seeing it
     
  14. Meteorman

    Meteorman Tele-Holic

    768
    Dec 23, 2012
    State College PA
    thanks Moosie.
    I have a full-size on-off-on SPDT left over from an amp build.
    Just to confirm - my electronics intuition is elementary - are you saying this replicates the Eldred mod circuit ?
     
  15. moosie

    moosie Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

    Age:
    62
    Jul 18, 2010
    Western Connecticut
    Yes, except the middle is open bridge, no tone circuit of either kind. One extreme is normal tone pot/cap, other extreme is just a tiny cap (Eldred).

    The only difference from your initial drawing is the positions of the selections. If that's critical.... I need to think if it's feasible...

    By the way, the switch wiring on that original drawing is much more complicated than it needs to be. ;)
     
  16. Meteorman

    Meteorman Tele-Holic

    768
    Dec 23, 2012
    State College PA
    10-4 Moosie.
    I soldered up your layout today- altho my caps are even smaller cuz its a Filtertron.
    Still have to finish the neck and do set-up before I can hear it.
    Thanks all and thanks Moosie.
     
  17. moosie

    moosie Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

    Age:
    62
    Jul 18, 2010
    Western Connecticut
    Cool. Let us know how it sounds.

    For the record, here's a simplified diagram using a standard 3-way Tele switch:

    Screen Shot 2018-12-09 at 7.55.44 PM.png
     
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