Asher Guitars WD Music Products Amplified Parts Mod Kits DIY Nordstarnd Pickups Warmoth.com
Asher Guitars WD Music Products Amplified Parts Mod Kits DIY Nordstarnd Pickups Warmoth.com
Asher Guitars WD Music Products Amplified Parts Mod Kits DIY Nordstarnd Pickups Warmoth.com

Wiring a humbucker w/4-way switch

Discussion in 'Tele-Technical' started by thaus, Jan 12, 2009.

  1. cc9cii

    cc9cii Friend of Leo's

    Feb 24, 2009
    Sydney
    +1

    I've messed up plenty when I got started, probably more than others :oops:

    Fortunately they were radios & stuff... Still, I carry a good size solder blob scar on my left leg (you smelll before you feel) as a reminder of many things I had to learn to do, not to do, etc.

    I bet you'll do much better next time.
     

  2. Crazy John

    Crazy John Tele-Meister

    Age:
    59
    227
    Oct 1, 2008
    Clemmons NC
    A "Fat" Tele was a Tele made by Fender with a Humbucker in the neck position and a single coil in the bridge. It was wired with a 5 way switch part number 0039003000. This switch is not a standard Strat switch, nor is it a superswitch and YES it will fit with no major modifications. I have 2 Teles wired this way and I absolutely LOVE the 5 different sounds. I wouldn't wire a Tele with this pup configuration any other way. You still get the Tele twang. You also get the Humbucker and bridge together not to mention some awesome single coil sounds and it is so easy to wire from the diagram given to you through Deaf Eddie's link. Do it now!!
     

  3. eagleeye

    eagleeye TDPRI Member

    Age:
    55
    53
    Jun 24, 2009
    Redding, CA
    Deaf Eddie Can you tell me where to find the 5 way FAT tele diagram? I am getting another tele and want to do it the FAT way! I guess I love to be challenged? Hey I do feel better knowing that this mod I tried was one of the tougher ones. I feel if I would have done it the last way drawn up I would have succeeded! I was SOOOO CLOSE to getting it but just had the switch messed up along with the grounding to the volume rather than the tone although I think that would have been OK. I really want to learn the tech stuff and do all of my own wiring for my guitars. I will get the fender switch now and get the stuff ready for the next one! BTW wouldn't the way we discussed give me even a better FAT style with the push pull than just a 5 way? Or can I do the 5 way along with push pulls? Maybe even two? I thought the 4 way with the push pulls would give me more options than just a 5 way? Was I wrong?
     

  4. Talmir

    Talmir Tele-Holic

    517
    Sep 17, 2007
    iceland
    A question to Deaf eddie, the resident wiring guru :)

    I have an alnico 2 SD humbucker in the neck, and stock HW1 bridge pickup. At the moment its wired with only a 3 position switch so its neck / both / bridge.. I find my neck humbucker a tad too dark sounding at times, is there a way for me to brighten it up a bit (does the 0.22 cap do that? didnt completely understand that part) and will the schematics on page one work for me if I should go for the 4 way switch?

    Thank you, and sorry to intrude upon your thread :D
     

  5. Crazy John

    Crazy John Tele-Meister

    Age:
    59
    227
    Oct 1, 2008
    Clemmons NC
    Eagleeye,

    In his July 1 post above Deaf Eddie provides the Fender drawing. In it you will see a resistor that is labeled as #17. This is a 270k resistor that gets wrapped in shrink tubing. Also, the pots used for wiring a Fat Tele are 500k. You really should go to the Fender guitar page and look under "wiring diagrams", scroll down to the Telecasters and find the Fat Tele as the very last Tele listed. There you will find pretty much all of the info you will need. Good luck.
     

  6. eagleeye

    eagleeye TDPRI Member

    Age:
    55
    53
    Jun 24, 2009
    Redding, CA
    Which 5 way switch do I need? Would I want the 5 way 4 pole or the standard 5 way? Also would using a 4 way with a push pull pot for the neck pup be about the same but with more options?
     

  7. eagleeye

    eagleeye TDPRI Member

    Age:
    55
    53
    Jun 24, 2009
    Redding, CA
    I got my AXE back from the tech without any work done. He seems to never be in a hurry to do my work and has SCRATCHED the crap out of my acoustic using a drill to replace my strings and then had the nerve to say it was done at the factory which was more than I could swallow! He did spend over an hour buffing out the scratches but I have not been back since until my girlfriend took my Tele in. I wanted her to go to the other shop but she opted for Bernies instead! I can now do this myself and follow Eddies revised diagram for my reverse control plate. I will take my time and follow the diagram and "GET HER DONE". Here I go again......................I love the smell of hot solder!


     

  8. eagleeye

    eagleeye TDPRI Member

    Age:
    55
    53
    Jun 24, 2009
    Redding, CA
    WOW WOW WOW! I GOT IT! And it SCREAMS, SINGS AND CRIES! This thing is a beast! I knew it would sound good but having the push pull for 3 of the 4 switch settings is really what makes this. I can THUMP and pull out the pot and clean up. It sounds like an original and I can't wait to put it to the test. EDDIE you are the MAN! I now have something that is in a league of its own! My friends are gonna be SHOCKED when I play this! LOL The .022 pot hit it perfect for tone also! Great choice and this thing is FATTER than FAT! THANK YOU EDDIE!
     

  9. eagleeye

    eagleeye TDPRI Member

    Age:
    55
    53
    Jun 24, 2009
    Redding, CA
    Would putting a .047 cap make the sound brighter or darker then a .022? If I go higher will it get brighter? Or should I go lower if I decide to add more treble to the sound. I like it as it is but would like to know what I would get if I change? Now I want to learn MORE!
     

  10. Deaf Eddie

    Deaf Eddie Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

    Mar 17, 2003
    Sunny San Diego, CA
    The .047uF - a bigger value - would make the whole guitar a tad darker.

    A .010Uf - a smaller value - would make the whole guitar brighter.

    If you want it to be a lot brighter, switch to a no-load tone pot.
     

  11. eagleeye

    eagleeye TDPRI Member

    Age:
    55
    53
    Jun 24, 2009
    Redding, CA
    How do I do the no-load? I think the .010 is the best bet but I would like to know how to do the no-load just in case. Also can you tell me on the push pull pot why are there six lugs? I know you said the middle lugs are common I think? But are the lugs just another of the same to connect two items to it? Would that be what makes it a DP (double pole)? I have a Les Paul I am going to install SD hot rodded pups in with 4 conductor and I am going to coil shunt them also. Should I replace the volume or tone pots with push pulls and any advice for the capacitors? Does anyone know what are the BEST pots for guitars? I see Bourns at Mouser and they are GUITAR pots but everyone seems to use CTS. Neither of these are push pull so I just want to upgrade them for the pots I won't need PP at. I know this is a Tele site but EDDIE is the GENIUS and I know he has knowledge for the Les Paul. My Ultra II Les Paul is gonna sing like my TELE does now! I am LOVING THE SMELL OF HOT SOLDER now..............So does my AXE!
     

  12. Deaf Eddie

    Deaf Eddie Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

    Mar 17, 2003
    Sunny San Diego, CA
    The no-load pot is wired exactly as your current tone pot is wired. The difference is internal.

    Most common p/p pots, as shown in my drawings, are indeed DP/DT switches. The two rows of three contacts are each considered a single pole: the center lug is the common, and the two "outside" lugs are the switchable contact points, and that's the Double Throw part of it. It's that arrangement, doubled for the Double Pole part.

    P/P pots can be used as volumes or tones, it's strictly a matter of personal preference and ergonomics. For me, I usually like the tone location, but a lot of players prefer them under the volume.

    CTS is the defacto brand-of-choice, and I wouldn't dare contradict tradition. But, use whatever you think will work for you. If it's a Gibson (not an Epi) Les Paul, IMHO there's probably not much to be gained replacing the pots, unless you just want to use a different value to adjust the voice of the guitar. Epis can definitely use the upgrade to better electronics.
     

  13. eagleeye

    eagleeye TDPRI Member

    Age:
    55
    53
    Jun 24, 2009
    Redding, CA
    Thank You Eddie! My LP is an Epi Ultra II so I will replace the pots and the selector switch when I change pups. I ordered Dimarzio PP pots today in 500k and will decide to use them in either tone or volume spots. I think I will replace the switch with switchcraft also since you gave me the heads-up.

    Now to the SWEET TELE! I notice that my pups sound nasely? I tried the tone adjustment but that does not do it. Any idea why? I have heard others have had similar sound but don't know how it was fixed? Or if it can be? How is it remedied?
     

  14. Deaf Eddie

    Deaf Eddie Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

    Mar 17, 2003
    Sunny San Diego, CA
    The description "nasally" USUALLY indicates that the pickups are out of phase. This usually ALSO is accompanied by the words "thin" and "weak".

    If all of those words apply to throws #2 and #4 ONLY, then that might be the case (pups out of phase) - however, it would be really UNUSUAL to find two Seymour Duncan pups that have been manufactured out of phase (but, it happens).

    If it applies to ALL the throws, that's a puzzler. Maybe you just don't like the tone of these pickups in that axe. Try disconnecting the tone cap and see what that does.

    If you decide the pups are out of phase - nasally ONLY in throws #2 and #4 - the fix is simply to reverse the green and black leads on ONE of the pickups. It doesn't matter which one. Remember, BOTH of the bare wires stay soldered to ground, regardless.
     

  15. eagleeye

    eagleeye TDPRI Member

    Age:
    55
    53
    Jun 24, 2009
    Redding, CA
    No it sounds nasally in all positions but definitely NOT thin or weak. Also it is in the bridge pup only. It has a very unique sound! Honestly I LOVE it but thought to ask "THE GENIUS". Oh it sounds AWESOME and so unique definitely more for rock than country but when I coil shunt the neck I get a great single coil sound perfect for country! It just has a very different sound and the more I play it the more I like it so I'll leave it alone. I just ordered a Highway One Tele so I can get the real Tele twang from that! Is there any other pups I might want to try for the Highway One? It is the standard with a maple neck and fretboard! I LOVE the maple sound! I would like to upgrade the pups in it also so am open to any suggestions. Also I would like to put in a 5 way and make it a FAT TELE if possible? Can you draw me up the plans to do it? What kind of Oakley 5 way do I need for it? Does it matter? Most of all would you recommend it and can I do it with the stock pups? Any thoughts for me to think of? THANK YOU "THE GENIUS" EDDIE! I could NEVER have done any of this without the help you offered along with your PATIENCE!
     

  16. Deaf Eddie

    Deaf Eddie Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

    Mar 17, 2003
    Sunny San Diego, CA
    SAGE ADVICE: play the Highway One STOCK for a while...

    I've never heard the Lil 59er bridge pup described as nasally, but there's an adjustment or two you can try on that pup. It's been my experience that Lil 59ers don't line up BOTH coils with the strings very well - one looks pretty good, but the other is off-centered. So...

    First, eyeball the pickup and decide which coil's polepieces line up the best with the strings. Screw those polepieces OUT, so that they poke up above the top of the pickup a bit (you may need to lower the pup to get that to work). NEXT, screw the polepieces of the other coil IN, as far as they will go (probably just level with the top of the bobbin).

    NEXT, since that pup has three mounting screws, adjust/tilt it so that it is NOT level with the strings, but rather so that it has the coil with the polepieces OUT and UP (and aligned with the strings) closer to the strings than the (off-centered) coil with the screw pieces you screwed in.

    What we're trying to do is make one coil have more output than the other coil - unbalancing the coils. That adjustment MIGHT make the pup seem a little brighter.

    Conversely, If you'd like that pup to be warmer, you might try to get the output of the two coils as matched as possible by adjusting the polepieces and tilting the pickup just the opposite from as described above. Screw IN the aligned polepieces and screw OUT the "off-centered" coil's polepieces, and tilt it. See what you get...
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2009

  17. eagleeye

    eagleeye TDPRI Member

    Age:
    55
    53
    Jun 24, 2009
    Redding, CA
    Nasally sounding Lil 59

    WOW once again you are amazing! Just adjusting the height and tilting the pup a little in front made a big difference but it still has a completely different sound! It really is UNIQUE and sounds good. I know I said nasally but it is not that kind of nasally which is bad. I think it is the general sound of the Lil 59. I think I misspoke? I tried to do as you say and it does make a difference but the more I play it the more I like it. It really has a one of a kind sound that KICKS ASS especially with pedals. I have it hooked to my Epiphone So Cal amp and let me tell you this thing can play it all! If only I could....... I was on my Line 6 Spider Jam and it sounds good on it also. Later I will go to my VOX AC50CP which is a ONE OF A KIND MACHINE! I then will go to my one of 5 modded VJ's and then on to my Crate GLX1200H and let you know the results of them all! I think I have a JEWEL and will leave my Highway One alone as you say for now. Now it is on to my Epi Ultra II to put the two push pull pots and CTS pots along with switchcraft and see if I can get it as BAD as my little SQUIER? My friends are coming over Sunday and they can play much better than I so I will let them take the Squier to the test. EDDIE I cannot say THANK YOU ENOUGH! You have taught me so much I owe you greatly! I hope to get some sounds recorded and post them but I don't want to let my treasure out of the box yet. I can't believe nobody has paired these up. WOW I am glad I did! Sometimes it is good to be dumb....... This time it paid off! I recommend you give this pair a try and tell me if I hit it. I have my OWN SOUND NOW! :D:cool:
     

  18. eagleeye

    eagleeye TDPRI Member

    Age:
    55
    53
    Jun 24, 2009
    Redding, CA
    I notice my Tele has a little buzz which goes away once I touch metal on the guitar. I think it is a grounding issue but since I am a AMATEUR I would like some JOURNEYMAN help. It goes away when I touch any metal except the pick guard attaching screws to the body. How can I isolate it? Or is there an easy fix? ANYTHING! It is really not loud but gets louder with a pedal.
     

  19. edadmartin

    edadmartin TDPRI Member

    51
    Nov 14, 2008
    co springs co
    Hi, hope to get a clarification on 1 thing. I have a 4 way switch I want to use with a stock single coil and a vintage Gibson mini bucker in the neck. How do I handle ground on the bucker.I have read that you shoud lift ground on single coils when using a 4 way switch ,what about humbuckers in the neck. Mine has braided single lead wire. Is there a diagram?
     

  20. Deaf Eddie

    Deaf Eddie Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

    Mar 17, 2003
    Sunny San Diego, CA
    RE: the mini-humbucker (and P90s, and vintage humbuckers):

    For any pickup that has a braided shield two-conductor lead (the "hot" is the center conductor) the braided shield is not only the ground/shield, it's the coil's negative conductor. Any series or phase options would put that braided shield - and all the metal parts of the pickup, including baseplate, cover, magnet, mounting screws - on the hot side of the circuit. This is bad news for phase and series mods.

    The only real option for running that type of a pickup in series is to run the series the other direction.

    IF your Tele's bridge pup does NOT have a metal baseplate, and the guitar DOES have a separate and independent lead out to the bridge assemble for the string ground, it's not that tough to accomplish.

    [​IMG]
     

IMPORTANT: Treat everyone here with respect, no matter how difficult!
No sex, drug, political, religion or hate discussion permitted here.