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Why Wait Til You Die?

Discussion in 'Bad Dog Cafe' started by scrapyardblue, Nov 15, 2017.

  1. Anode100

    Anode100 Friend of Leo's

    May 9, 2014
    Behind my beard.
    I like to think if I'm ever in the position of having more than I could spend - given reasonable life expectancy and standards - I'd be generous with what I can't spend on the other side.

    I'd be canny about it though - no point giving more than necessary to the Govt - it'd only end up being spent on war and hookers.
     
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  2. scrapyardblue

    scrapyardblue Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

    Feb 6, 2007
    central illinois
    I agree the concept of expecting or waiting for someone to die for an inheritance is weird, but the crux of this thread is from the givers perspective, should they wait or not. Nothing weird about considering to or not.
     

  3. bottlenecker

    bottlenecker Tele-Afflicted

    Dec 6, 2015
    Wisconsin
    If she lived check to check, there are inherent stresses that take years off a person's life, whether they feel happy or not.
     
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  4. moosie

    moosie Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

    Age:
    60
    Jul 18, 2010
    Western Connecticut
    Makes me want to cry, reading that.

    I still remember my son in first grade, running home from the school bus, waving that flyer. "Dad! Dad! Look at this! There's a scout pack and we can join and do all this stuff and get uniforms and go camping and have sleepouts and learn to use pocketknives and..."

    My first reaction was an internal groan, because I hadn't enjoyed scouts as a kid. That lasted about two seconds. 'OK, let's do it!" And we were off. Between cub scouts and boy scouts, we were both active for 12 years.

    We had the best darn time you can imagine. Those were great years for my son, and probably the best years of my life. Now that he's older, and doing other stuff, including being a dad himself, Scouts seems pretty far away. But then I notice he still uses his Eagle Scout blanket, every day. It was a gift from mom and dad at his Eagle ceremony.


    My wife sometimes gets miffed with me, because I'll follow my heart in those kind of situations. Reducing life to money issues is needless and sad. Life is so much more than that. For example, my son had been planning to hike the AT end-to-end ever since he was 6 years old. Really. He asked me where that trail went, near our house. I told him if you go that way, in 750 miles you'll be in Maine, and the other way, 1500 miles to Georgia. We had to go home and look on a map. He wouldn't let it go.

    It made the most sense for him to hike between high school and college. I think my wife feared he'd drop out of school to hike, otherwise. Probably right. We had hiked together for years. I was planning on doing the hike, too. As just two adults that like each other's company. Not father and son. He had worked and saved $5k for the trip, which is more than he needed. I had my $5k, and we left my wife at home to keep the house running.

    Thing is, it "cost" me much more than $5k. I had to take 6 months off work at a time when I was at peak earnings. In that sense, it cost a bloody fortune. And instead of money coming in, the savings was reduced because my wife needed to still pay bills. I had just started a new job - I was a freelance consultant, and they wanted to hire me full time. I told them "well, OK, but I'm leaving in 9 months". They couldn't understand it at first, but then they thought it was "cool". Go ahead, take a couple months. No. I need SIX months, not a day less. I was not gonna chase myself for 2200 miles... I said, that's OK, I'll just find a new job when I get back. My wife is looking at me like I'm insane. It was a very good job. Too bad. I'll get another. This is a lifetime opportunity, and I'm not wasting it. Well, in the end, the employer held my job, and welcomed me back.

    Every bit of common sense, budgeting, frugality, fiscal sensibility, retirement planning, etc, screamed to wait ten years, until I could retire. But my son wouldn't be there in ten years, he'd be doing other things by then.


    And two years later, I got sick, and won't likely be hiking ever again.

    Ignore the money, it'll come. That's how I've always treated mine. Life's too short to live in fear.
     

  5. Nightclub Dwight

    Nightclub Dwight Tele-Meister

    307
    Aug 12, 2016
    Pittsburgh
    My partner's parents have a pretty good system. We are responsible adults who pay our own way through life. But when we make a major purchase like a new car or household appliance, or if we go on vacation, they will often give us a hundred bucks unsolicited. We never ask for it, nor do we plan to get it. They don't always offer it. But if they are in a position to offer it, they usually do. We never make our purchase expecting them to help. We can always afford the purchase on our own. But it sure is nice to get a hundred bucks the day after we drop a thousand or more on something we need.
     
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  6. elihu

    elihu Poster Extraordinaire

    Dec 24, 2009
    Texas
    I liked your post Moosie because you put your son first. Money can't buy what you gave him.

    A lot of this thread seems to be folks building categories (like an insurance company) so they can neatly slot each circumstance where they would or wouldn't give. I don't think it works that way. Trash the preconceptions. Each situation should be looked at individually.

    And something else-it feels good to help.
     
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  7. Boubou

    Boubou Poster Extraordinaire Gold Supporter

    Age:
    58
    Jul 30, 2005
    Montreal, Quebec
    I like the concept of giving.
    I don't like the concept of expecting or demanding
     
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  8. Musekatcher

    Musekatcher Tele-Holic

    597
    Jan 15, 2013
    Heart O' Dixie
    Free money usually does harm. Many a relative or kid has been impaired for life from too much unearned income, having too much done for them, and too much idle time. You gotta struggle man, live the blues to play the blues, and so on.
     
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  9. NashvilleDeluxe

    NashvilleDeluxe Tele-Holic

    606
    May 10, 2007
    Laurentians, Quebec
    The one time in my life that I would have really appreciated an unsolicited gift was post-divorce. Not for bills or life, but some kind of vacation, without kids, to get a mental break from the throes of divorce and (in my situation) raising two young children on my own.

    It was a time of great mental stress...sold two business, got a teaching job (to be more available for kids) sold my house and took an apartment, and did a lot of compromising and tongue-biting regarding the kids' mom.

    If you ever get a chance to give a single mom or dad an evening/weekend or vacation break, consider it.
     
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  10. raito

    raito Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

    Nov 22, 2010
    Madison, WI
    Whereas in my case, it would be an insult.
     

  11. CK Dexter Haven

    CK Dexter Haven Tele-Holic

    Age:
    56
    878
    Jun 7, 2017
    GCDB
    I appreciate you taking the time to share your story, my father tries to be a good man, he just has "demons" that rule his every move, I know they were passed down from his mother, I could never think of her as my gran, as no grandmother could be so cruel, it was her husband in my story, he did what he could, I remember his encouragement to work thru the Merit Badge books on my own, he would often 'get things from guys at work' one of the things was a actual BSA compass in a carry bag, I used it to learn map reading and such, over the years the compass was misplaced, I still have the bag, some day it will return. He also got me a old bugle & I was able to join the local explorer troop D&B when I was older, a rag tag group we were, but much fun was had; eventually as I traveled I joined better groups, and performed at a few big shows, and was a member of a D-1 marching band, which paid a small stipend for school. He also helped me with the model railroading book, I had a old non running Lionel I had found out for the trash, we got it going, aded a few other "orphans"; I still set them up at the holidays, my first job out of college was working at a hobby publication. His advise was sound; I have been many places, done many things, met many diverse people. I will never be rich in dollars, like Jake the early experiences set my path, but the experiences.. the protagonist in "Green Back Dollar" said it best "a whaling song and a good guitar... the only things that I understand", and thats enough.
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2017
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  12. scrapyardblue

    scrapyardblue Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

    Feb 6, 2007
    central illinois
    I know a kid, a high-functioning autistic kid, that's been to three different schools in five years. He now attends high school in a small community that, unlike the others, is head over heels better equipped to deal with his condition. Finally, he is flourishing. Due to unforeseen circumstances, his father no longer resides in the community and this boy will end up back in the original district that has no real resources nor expertise for this special need.

    It would take about $9,000 per year for an out of district student to remain in that small town school, yet sadly his divorced parents don't have anywhere near that discretionary money.

    This kid has lived more blues in his short run than most people here in a lifetime, yet his attitude would make even the toughest among us shed a tear. He just doesn't fit so easily in all of the boxes that society has created.

    Now, while I agree with your sentiment, helping this particular person would be a blessing from above. I would also bet that others in this forum could provide a thousand instances where such gratitude would have a similar impact in someone's life, with nothing but a positive outcome to be expected.
     
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  13. moosie

    moosie Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

    Age:
    60
    Jul 18, 2010
    Western Connecticut
    Yes, that's always in the back of my mind when this discussion arises.


    I think about the stuff I've done in my life. The absolutely stupid, boneheaded, incredibly dangerous stuff. And that was just getting married. (kidding, honey).

    But then I think about how I treat my kids. When they were little, sure, they needed me to keep them from walking into a men's room and hugging the urinal, because it looked so interesting. (Many times :rolleyes: :lol:). But as they grow up, even when they're 8 years old, it's important to let them fail. If you never take off the water wings, how is your kid ever gonna learn to swim?

    I think all parents are probably guilty of this to some degree. It's biologic imperative, to want to save them, at any cost to yourself. That's one of the hardest parenting jobs, to learn when to be there, and when to step back. Not least because it keeps changing over the years. And because the child often disagrees with your approach at the time.

    Money, if you have it, is an easy out. Makes you feel good, logically it seems like it would be helpful, and you don't have to maintain a position where no one agrees with you. The recipients rarely disagree, at the time.

    Maintaining compassionate objectivity as your child grows into real adulthood (not just age)... that's the real gift, IMO.
     

  14. scrapyardblue

    scrapyardblue Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

    Feb 6, 2007
    central illinois
    I agree, Moosie, I think that's a sound approach to raising responsible adults. I've ascribed to that doctrine in raising my kids, perhaps with a few minor slippages. But somehow I get the feeling we're talking about two different things, neither of which is exclusive of the other.

    What life lesson have you taught the 60 year lady that dies only a few years before she could've enjoyed money that would've been hers anyway? Tough shirt, shoulda did better for yourself? How have you impeded the growth of the 15 year old autistic kid by giving him a school better equipped to deal with his situation? Too bad kid, learn to fail, it builds character?

    Why can't you teach responsibility but still provide some unexpected boosts in certain situations? None of the examples I give are going to ruin or soften anybody's approach to life. I'm not going be the guy that shouts out on my deathbed that I could've helped, but dammit, sink or swim is the only right way to go.
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2017
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  15. chezdeluxe

    chezdeluxe Poster Extraordinaire Gold Supporter

    Age:
    67
    Dec 29, 2007
    Brisbane Australia
    Generosity and encouraging self reliance are not mutually exclusive.
     

  16. Musekatcher

    Musekatcher Tele-Holic

    597
    Jan 15, 2013
    Heart O' Dixie
    Good point. I've got plenty of income to afford taxes for schools and programs to deal with the epidemic of autism, and autism spectrum disorders. I think I'm addressing excessive gifting, and abusive receiving, versus charity and assistance. Thanks for your response.
     
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  17. moosie

    moosie Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

    Age:
    60
    Jul 18, 2010
    Western Connecticut
    I've purposely avoided responding to your personal situation. We're probably pretty much on the same page, but I only know from my own experience, and I have no business offering a real opinion on someone's situation whom I don't even know.

    Context is everything, and I've tried to leave some of mine out of it, but it still has an effect. I've not mentioned my 50 year old alcoholic brother, and how my father - meaning well - shovels money in his direction - tens of thousands, full "life support". Brother is not the least bit interested in changing. And why? He's got it pretty good, if you like to live that way.

    Neither have I mentioned my wife's deadbeat brother and family, and how a simple advance of cash so we could pay a single deposit for the upcoming vacation home on the lake, turned into a supreme hassle trying to get them to pay their share.

    Some people have no shame. And some people never change.

    The examples here might have a chance of their lives improving, if they weren't bailed out. And if not, well at least they aren't going to suck the life out of me and my immediate family.

    Final thought, and keep in mind I have no idea of the amounts anyone but me is talking about (rightly so). As I mentioned earlier, I was on a great career track, and was going to have a sweet retirement, traveling, doing whatever. A very large degree of financial security. Things changed OVERNIGHT, through no one's fault, except the ones who cobbled together that vaccine I took, and my genetic material. I'm really friggin' glad I didn't feel largesse and give 20% of my capital away a week before it happened. You just never know if you're set, until you truly don't need it anymore. That's why we have inheritances and estates. And trusts.
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2017
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  18. Stratohacker

    Stratohacker Tele-Meister

    456
    Apr 18, 2013
    California
    The only ones that will be getting money from my efforts will be my wife or my three kids. Beyond College, I don't think its a good idea for children to expect anything from their parents except love and emotional support. Certainly if there is an unexpected emergency that requires help there are exceptions. But I think part of become a responsible and productive adult is planing your own life and working hard to get where you want to be - on your own.

    Just my opinion.
     
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  19. rad1

    rad1 Tele-Meister

    463
    Aug 5, 2015
    Santa Cruz CA
    My parents would help me any way they could, never stingy with money. Unfortunately they passed away when I just left my teens. They left us three kids no debt, but also no inheritance. That was ok, we expected none. The greatest gift they gave us was the ability and desire to work hard and to share.

    My wife and I have helped our two girls every way we could. Those investments were well placed. Both girls went on to become successful, one a Doctor and the other a PA, they both earn far more than my wife and I ever did, they need nothing from us. Neither one are stingy with their money and tomorrow they head out on a big Christmas shopping spree buying for a series of very needy families in our community. Families asking for things like blankets, coats, food, sad sad stuff.

    I’m glad I come from a generous family even though we did not have much and I’m glad my girls are the same.

    So to answer the initial question, I would help out my family with out risking my financial future.
     

  20. KyAnne

    KyAnne Tele-Holic

    961
    Oct 8, 2011
    Swamps of Louisiana
    Ya know.........he was right about the Band instructors getting "kickbacks". Yes he was! No comment on the other stuff. :)
     

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