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Why the difference in value?

Discussion in 'Vintage Tele Discussion Forum (pre-1974)' started by Chick-N-Picker, Jul 2, 2015.

  1. Chick-N-Picker

    Chick-N-Picker Tele-Afflicted

    Age:
    24
    Apr 26, 2015
    North Carolina
    I'm going to try to keep this short as possible. Why do the 58-60 Les Pauls standards go for so much more money than say an original nocaster or broadcaster?

    I know they didn't make that many Les Paul standards from 58-60 and then they discontinued them until 68, but they didn't make that many broadcasters or nocasters either. It seems like even a original 52 would go for more than 20-30 thousand considering what it is.

    I have a few thoughts as to why but I also have some counter to those thoughts.

    What are your thoughts on this.
     

  2. stretford

    stretford TDPRI Member

    76
    Apr 16, 2010
    Florida
    My guess is that the definitive Les Paul configuration of humbuckers, sunburst finish, flame maple top, and adjustable stoptail was only available for a brief period of less than 3 years. No other vintage Gibson guitar was made with quite the same configuration or looks before or for decades after.

    With the telecaster you have much larger production over an unbroken half century plus without much radical change to the core design. There are plenty of options to get you in the ballpark, and there never was a shortage of Telecasters that looked or behaved pretty close to the original spec.
     

  3. codamedia

    codamedia Friend of Leo's

    Apr 4, 2009
    Western Canada
    This could get me in a lot of trouble on these forums... but I'll bite on this question :lol:

    There is a big difference in craftsmanship between a Les Paul Standard and a Telecaster. As much as I love the tele - the thing I love about it is that it is a slab of lumber. It's a magical slab of lumber, but it's still just a slab! A les paul is a finely crafted instrument with much more detail.

    I have to go duck now.... see you in a few weeks...
     

  4. Major Gruber

    Major Gruber Tele-Afflicted

    Feb 24, 2012
    Colombes France
    Simple law of supply and demand.

    Quality, rarity, yes, but style and tone that more people dream of are at the base of the myth.

    Early Fenders are the opposite of show off (I don't mean LP are all about show off, but you know what I mean). Their simplicity, purity, even in a sense, austerity touch less people.
     

  5. Robert H.

    Robert H. Friend of Leo's

    Jul 28, 2005
    N. Cal.
    All true--but I agree with the supply & demand comment too. I have a 56 L5C which is a beauty, crafted as finely as any LP (really more went into the archtops). But it is worth about what a late 60's Tele sells for---maybe 3% of a '59 LP. Twenty-five years ago the old L5's were going for much more than they sell for now. Taste is a fickle fiend.
     

  6. BigDaddyLH

    BigDaddyLH Telefied Ad Free Member

    Good point. A LP can't touch the workmanship in a carved jazz box.

    And a Tele? It's a working man's guitar. Nothing wrong with that.
     

  7. petebrown

    petebrown Tele-Meister

    209
    Sep 22, 2003
    No. Cal.
    I think a huge factor is the history of LP's in rock, all the famous players who used them, Bloomfield and all the british blues-rockers- That overdriven LP tone is iconic in rock. By and large teles have been most used in country music, which has had a less mainstream demographic, especially back in the 60's-80's.
     

  8. telex76

    telex76 Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

    Age:
    66
    Jun 24, 2006
    Fort Worth,Tx.
    LP is just a lot more expensive guitar to start with.

    If it's double the price new, then it's no surprise if it's double the price vintage.

    10/12 years ago vintage Teles were going for much more than they are now.
    The market fell way off after the financial bust of 2008 and hasn't come back to where it was.
     

  9. slimdave

    slimdave TDPRI Member

    78
    Mar 8, 2013
    Barcelona
    Why is a broadcaster more expensive than a telecaster? Supply and demand.
    Why is LP more expensive than a telecaster? Supply and demand. Easy.
     

  10. JackStraw

    JackStraw Friend of Leo's

    Mar 22, 2008
    In The Pines
    It has to be more than that. There are many fine vintage instruments that are relatively scarce that don't command Les Paul prices. I think it has more to do with who was/is playing them and what that means to the deep pocket purchaser's of these guitars. Same might be said of the Martin D-45.
     

  11. rebelwoclue

    rebelwoclue Poster Extraordinaire Platinum Supporter

    Jan 15, 2012
    kentucky
    Two sides of the same coin IMO. The demand comes from fans of the era and the music played on the instruments. The LP is the quintessential R&R guitar that started with the 70's rockers buying them up for the sound and the demand just carried on from there. There is also the original cost and quality of a LP versus a bolt-on guitar for the masses...
    I'll just sit here now with my popcorn...:lol:
     

  12. Chick-N-Picker

    Chick-N-Picker Tele-Afflicted

    Age:
    24
    Apr 26, 2015
    North Carolina
    All great points. Many of you came up with some of the same reasoning I had thought of and few more.

    So I guess even though there are only a few broad and nocasters they are just a telecaster with a different name so you have from 1950-54 to get a blackguard and 55-59 for a white guard and 59-65 for a rosewood, so someone doesn't have to get a broadcaster to get a specific tone as in a 58-60 Les Paul even though there may be technically less broadcasters.

    I also feel that if a lot of big name people would start saying that telecasters were better and more iconic that would drive price up. It may take a few years but it probably would.

    But since mainly country guys are the ones who recognize the true glory of the telecaster that most likely will not happen.
     

  13. JD0x0

    JD0x0 Friend of Leo's

    Age:
    27
    Feb 22, 2009
    New York
    People decided Gibsons have more 'Magic' and 'Mojo' in their old guitars compared to Fender.
     

  14. London John

    London John Banned

    132
    Mar 5, 2014
    London
    A 'burst is a LOT easier to find than a Broadcaster or Nocaster. There are 20 or so 'bursts for sale today I know of, but I don't know of a single original Broadcaster for sale. Just an observation.

    The list of known 'burst players is very much longer than the corresponding Tele list....right or wrong. All the iconic rock guys played 'bursts. Others followed.

    Oh, and the good ones play and sound like nothing else.
     

  15. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

    Mar 17, 2003
    Lubbock, TX
    IN response to the 'supply and demand assertion, Jack Straw wrote: "It has to be more than that. There are many fine vintage instruments that are relatively scarce that don't command Les Paul prices."

    Rarity is on the supply side of the equation. Demand is on the other side. Even a truly one-off guitar is not worth much if no one wants it, correct? (;^)


    London John wrote: "Oh, and the good ones play and sound like nothing else."

    While I am a big Gibson fan for over 50 years, I have to observe that a good guitar...no matter the make or model....can yield the same results----that is...'sound like nothing else.' The last blackguard I sold was the BEST Tele I have ever heard, and the buyer was very much impressed as well. Nacho's words were..."Wally, man, I love you. This is a tone-monster guitar!" It was strong enough to push an amp in a way that no other Tele I have been around could do....big and rich it was.
    It still isn't worth what a 'burst is worth, though, in the market....and never will be.
     

  16. KC

    KC Friend of Leo's

    Mar 16, 2003
    Missoula, Montana
    Give this a few years & it might change. If you look at the big bands lately, you don't see a lot of les pals, and you do see a ton of teles. it may be that when the youth of today hits their prime earning years in a couple of decades, they'll start chasing the guitars that meant something to them on the way up. If guitar collecting is still a thing, which I sort of doubt.
     

  17. slimdave

    slimdave TDPRI Member

    78
    Mar 8, 2013
    Barcelona
    The demand of LPs is higher than any other guitar. The supply is relatively scarce. There's where the prices comes from...

    And well, everybody has in their imaginary that pic of Jimmy Page (or another rock god) holding a LP. You just can't get that out of your mind. That has also something to do with the prices.
     

  18. slimdave

    slimdave TDPRI Member

    78
    Mar 8, 2013
    Barcelona
    Hi John.

    Check out Ten Guitars in Germany. They have a broadcaster and a nocaster for sale right now. Not cheap, but you know, this is Europe :)

    Cheers


     

  19. Chick-N-Picker

    Chick-N-Picker Tele-Afflicted

    Age:
    24
    Apr 26, 2015
    North Carolina
    When I picture Jimmy Page I usually picture his dragon tele but I'm biased.
     

  20. john_cribbin

    john_cribbin Tele-Holic

    739
    Nov 26, 2014
    London
    I'll give a factor - Set neck vs Bolt on neck. How many threads do we see on this forum questioning are the neck and body original. If I was tempted to spend big bucks on a vintage piece, I'd feel happier it was vintage / original if the body and neck were one piece.
     

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