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Why is "Vintage" defined as pre-1974 in this forum???

Discussion in 'Vintage Tele Discussion Forum (pre-1974)' started by E5RSY, Aug 25, 2017.

  1. Major Gruber

    Major Gruber Tele-Afflicted

    Feb 24, 2012
    Colombes France
    What do you mean end badly? Gun shots? :lol: Or just people NOT AGREEING together? In fact, disrespect only starts when someone expresses he thinks that a different experience / opinion from his own is bs. But as in the first place, this pre-74 forum is designed for vintage lovers to share their passion, I don't understand how discussions could become contentious… This is about experience sharing. If contradictory discussion happen they're of course secondary and in the (good) end, everyone will continue being free to purchase his favorite instruments just the way he intends… ;)

  2. Doug B

    Doug B TDPRI Member

    May 29, 2017

    I graduated high school in '74, and that seems like last week to me.

    Wasn't '68 also when Fender amps changed from black panels to silver panels?
    nojazzhere, Dismalhead and Doctorx33 like this.

  3. Doctorx33

    Doctorx33 Tele-Afflicted

    Jun 8, 2014
    Yes, I think so. I have two Bassman heads, a 68 and 69 and they are silverface. Been thinking of selling one of them.

  4. TVmodel

    TVmodel TDPRI Member

    Aug 25, 2017
    Hoboken, New jersey
    In 1974-1975, Fender strat pickups went to flat pole pickups. That's why I use 1974 as a cutoff. Also, Fenders really started to get heavy around 1974-1975.

  5. codamedia

    codamedia Friend of Leo's

    Apr 4, 2009
    Western Canada
    Vintage is not designated by a specific age or year, it's designated more by the impact on the industry and players. Telecasters still had some magical moments at the beginning of the 70's. A '72 TELE Deluxe and Custom are very highly regarded instruments. The Thinline had a second coming, and the standard tele's remained pretty much unchanged since the late 60's. '73 rode the success of '72 by not changing anything.

    IIRC, in '74 the tele lost it's notch (the end of an era)... although that in itself shouldn't be enough to kick them out of the club. My hunch is that nothing substantial happened with the Tele beyond '72... and any changes done were seen as negative. '73 is included because they still hadn't changed anything!

    Just my thoughts...

  6. rjtwangs

    rjtwangs Tele-Holic Ad Free Member

    Jan 18, 2010
    Reston, Virginia
    Well as far as I'm concerned the cutoff SHOULD be 1967. The final transition year, the end of Fender, the last of the blackface amps the new larger headstocks on strats and the end of the spaghetti logo and on to the other changes implemented by CBS, hence the term pre-CBS...It's like this with Martin Guitars, some like me, think the Martin cutoff should be 1964, the last year of hot hide glue construction and the move from the old facility to the new larger one. Most folks use the cutoff date for vintage Martins as 1970, as it was the last year of Brazilian rosewood. But I think it's a bogus reason. The D-18 didn't change in 1970, in fact the ONLY major change in 1970 was the aforementioned decline in Brazilian rw....but, it is what it is....ymmv....

    Gibson likes this.

  7. Dismalhead

    Dismalhead Poster Extraordinaire

    Feb 16, 2014
    Auburn, California
    I just watched the movie Christine for the first time. The car was a '58 Cadillac; the guy said it was considered to be an antique because it was 20 years old when the movie took place (1978). Would you consider a '97 Camry an antique now? Not a chance.

    Collectible, vintage, antique, and anything else you can think of are just arbitrary terms in the brain of the owner or beholder.
    deytookerjaabs likes this.

  8. Anode100

    Anode100 Friend of Leo's

    May 9, 2014
    Behind my beard.

  9. magicfingers99

    magicfingers99 Tele-Meister

    May 7, 2015
    could be totally arbitrary or it could be based on a major incident that occured that year, when several guitar companies interested in cornering the market bought up most major supplies of Tone Wood, and then paid arsonist to burn down the remaining Tone Wood forests, hence the nosebleed prices for these works of aural art. Rumor has it they are working on Tone Wood Termites to destroy existing guitar stocks even further and drive price ever skyward.

    I will soon be marketing a totally organic Tone Wood Termite repellant and pesticide in a snazzy paisley sachet suitable for guitar cases and bags to help people out for a nominal fee around 39.95. Watch for me on late night TV and popup ads around the internets.

    so hope that helps explain why 1974 was the Rubicon of Guitars and why you're precious investment guitar might be turning to dust in its case, if you don't get one of those snazzy sachets in a hurry...

    run don't walk, they are "the gift" this christmas and they will be in short supply, save your tone wood while you can......
    satellitedog and Hacksaw like this.

  10. viking

    viking Friend of Leo's

    Jan 23, 2007
    I dont get why being able to call a guitar vintage have anything to do with quality or anything.....
    I guess there has to be a cut off date
    They are all just old guitars anyway , unless you believe all the talk about mojo........thats quite allright , some people have imaginary friends too....
    I like all kinds of old stuff , but have never been able to understand the prices , or the fact that they should all be better guitars

  11. crossroader

    crossroader Tele-Afflicted Gold Supporter

    Sep 24, 2004
    Endicott, NY
    Har! Obviously, none of those artists are "new."

    But none of them qualify as "classic rock," either. Not to me, anyway.
    The "classic" stuff is from the 60's and 70's.

    Then again, I'm a geezer, so what do I know? :cool:

    The "vintage" line for gear, though, does seem to keep moving.
    But I think that's motivated by the sellers. You can get more money for it if it's "vintage," right?? ;)

  12. tele12

    tele12 Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

    Dec 2, 2006
    At one time 1974 might have seemed like a good cutoff point.
    As time as passed it becomes more of an arbitrary break point.

    If you count the Broadcaster and NoCaster, Leo's company made Telecasters for 15 years.
    CBS made Telecasters for 20 years.
    FMIC has been making Telecasters for over 30 years, with many different models and places of manufacture.

    I will argue that a 1977 Tele made in California has far more in common with an original Telecaster or a 74 than
    It does with a Made in China Modern Player or Made in Mexico Baja.

  13. nojazzhere

    nojazzhere Friend of Leo's

    Feb 3, 2017
    Foat Wuth, Texas
    It's all perspective, really....I got my first good guitar, a 1960 Les Paul Jr in 1969.....I and my friends considered it old (vintage) at the time. Flash forward to 1993 Telecaster is not viewed (at least by me) as "vintage", but a work still in progress. Nine years old vs. twentyfour years old....go figure.

  14. dodona

    dodona TDPRI Member

    Sep 1, 2008
    as a contemporary witness I say that the state of Fender/Gibson of the 70ths gave reason for the vintage madness. 70ths guitars are the worst. Todays, even if inexpensive, are much better.
    magicfingers99 likes this.

  15. NiceTele

    NiceTele Tele-Afflicted

    Dec 20, 2012
    I have a '84 Gibson ES335 which I will never part's magic. But young guys look in awe when I say it's 33 years old.. to them that's a vintage guitar!

  16. Major Gruber

    Major Gruber Tele-Afflicted

    Feb 24, 2012
    Colombes France

    Seller don't exist without buyers. Vintage prices depend on the simple rule of supply and demand. Some great vintage stuff is worth nothing because nobody looks for it. Of course, vintage sellers are concerned by the prices to stay the highest possible, But that's regular business. Some vintage are few and desired, so they're expensive.

    Much more problematic to me is the strategy of the custom shop that creates the most occasion possible to offer limited edition models that are priced in the range of vintage. Is a Clapton Blackie at 120 copies really worth more than 30,000 $ ? The rate of a rare and original mid 50's telly ? I'm surprised nobody discuss this. "when you're ready to pay a price of vintage for a new one." I think real vintage price is logical, but this is a perverse side effect. Just my pov.

  17. Dacious

    Dacious Poster Extraordinaire

    Mar 16, 2003
    It's like Ferraris once worth tens of thousands are now worth millions. I always think a consideration is that, while there are some great old guitars (and' amps) that seem to breathe out the nicotine, beer fumes and sweat they've absorbed in ten thousand bar gigs where they set the place alight, there's a lot that were and are pretty ordinary mass-produced items with no mojo. Let the collector market have them to hang in dim light in their professional office or den. The good thing is, nowadays more people can sell you a facsimile of that for a fraction of the price. And you can enjoy something of that magic or mojo for less than a lot of guys spend on beer Inna year.

  18. Major Gruber

    Major Gruber Tele-Afflicted

    Feb 24, 2012
    Colombes France
    I think when there's a magic or a "mojo", it comes first from the wood. Its age, how it was produced then, how it's been played since. It's a lottery. And as I can't afford vintage collector grade, I used to hunt players and old pieces. With good instinct and patience you can end up with an instrument with a soul for the price of a good facsimile. I don't say modern instruments aren't great, of course. I say good vintage stuff is always unique, and it's that feel and personnality I'm only interested in, it's really a matter of taste. And as I said earlier in the discussion, when you go down the road with a precise goal, you're amazed by what you can find on the distance. My favorite tele is a 67 that took me 3 years to achieve and complete, and it feels and sounds better than any telecaster I've tried in ten years. And it droppred the jaw of the best guitarists I know. Just my testimony about loving vintage.
    tonyj likes this.

  19. magicfingers99

    magicfingers99 Tele-Meister

    May 7, 2015
    every body wants an edge, some people think a vintage guitar will give it to them. A lot of placebo effect at work. I own some 60's and 70's guitars and some 90's and aughts as well. I've always felt as long as the guitar stays in tune and the action is playable, its really not the guitar as much as the player that makes the magic happen.

    If I'm in the pocket it doesn't matter if I'm playing a 1976 Gretsch or 2011 yamaha or first act, the music will come through. Its kinda like dumbo and the feather, as long as he beleives the feather is magic and can make him fly, he stays aloft, but its really his ears that carry him. Like most musicians its not the magic guitar feather, its your ears( and whats between them) that carry you.

    Vintage instruments are mostly investment properties at this point. Guess its as safe (or not)as putting your money in stocks.

  20. TDPRI

    TDPRI Administrator Staff Member

    Mar 2, 2003
    Admin Post
    I started working on establishing a Vintage forum in 2006. At that time members said that 25 years old was "vintage." But even more members didn't want a Vintage forum. We actually took a Poll back in 2006 and those were the results.

    This was around the time that I learned that doing a poll about any change resulted in similar results - people wanted NO CHANGES.

    A great many thought that 1965 was the demarcation for Vintage. But 1969 Teles were almost unchanged from 1965 and earlier Telecasters. Looking at each subsequent year it seemed that things changed the most after 1973. Though I admit I don't remember the details of that decision.

    So, in 2013 - after letting the idea mellow like a fine wine - I made an executive decision and created the forum picking Pre-1974 for the dividing line and at the time got very few complaints about the choice.

    I looked for my rational for the year by searching for the post I made introducing the new forum... but couldn't find it. So, I'm relying on 4+ year old memory here. I did find the 2006 Poll and the post announcing that we were not going to start a Vintage Forum at that time.

    So now you know the REST OF THE STORY. (we'll be back after these words from AAAAMMMway)

    (Ask your parents about that last cultural reference.)
    jaygtr, tonyj and brogh like this.

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