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Why do rock stars hate Led Zeppelin?

Discussion in 'Music to Your Ears' started by BeatlesAreMyJam, Jan 4, 2015.

  1. 4pickupguy

    4pickupguy Poster Extraordinaire

    May 12, 2013
    Fort Worth, Texas
    Pretty much like blaming the victim (Jake Holmes) for being plagiarized (or in this case Page-arized) although he did everything legally to protect his music and Zep had 45 years to do the right thing. Or claiming they were entitled to it because (in most Zep fans opinion) they made it better. Those are very much "bigger dog" positions.
     

  2. awasson

    awasson Friend of Leo's Gold Supporter

    Age:
    53
    Nov 18, 2010
    Vancouver
    That's a pretty wide paintbrush you have there... Sure there are a few people who claimed they should be immune to copyright infringement but that's not every musician who appreciates Led Zeppelin takes that position. This discussion began with a conversation about Keith Richards and Pete Townsend's dislike for Led Zeppelin. I don't know when it got hung up on plagiarism and lawsuits but that's not why Keith & Townsend don't like them.

    I'm pretty sure Townsend was pissed at Jimmy Page for setting up a session with Entwistle and Moon for the Jeff Beck session. I'm not sure why Keith Richards doesn't like them. As far as I've read, he was encouraging of other musicians but maybe they presented a challenge to the Stones for R&R supremacy?
     
    Patrick Nelson likes this.

  3. 4pickupguy

    4pickupguy Poster Extraordinaire

    May 12, 2013
    Fort Worth, Texas
    I'm using the same general statement sized brush. While we at it, wondering why some people dont respect them, lets add Jeff Beck to the mix who 'Plage' had the unmitigated gall to sue for what else? Plagiarism
     

  4. Mekhem

    Mekhem Tele-Holic Ad Free Member

    831
    Oct 31, 2010
    Minneapolis
    I think JP was kind of famous for that too wasn't he? I heard a looooonnnnggg time ago that those Page/Beck/Clapton recordings were recorded or released on the sly and that EC was pissed.

    Also - Zeppelin, the Stones and the Who, were all kind of catty during the 70's no? British R&R supremacy as mentioned above?
     

  5. awasson

    awasson Friend of Leo's Gold Supporter

    Age:
    53
    Nov 18, 2010
    Vancouver
    When? I've heard rumour that Page/Beck had a lawsuit over Beck's Bolero but never saw any evidence that it actually happened, just a guy on the internet saying it did.

    I know Beck was pissed at Jimmy Page back in the early 80's (probably about the Bolero sessions) but all of the recent interviews and ones from from earlier they seemed to be pretty close buddies who admired each other. I understand Beck was a little miffed at Clapton when they were both playing blues and aiming to be top of the list but as soon as Beck got turned onto his fusion style, he began to appreciate Clapton. This is from reading the October 1980 Jeff Beck interview in GP magazine.
     

  6. RLee77

    RLee77 Friend of Leo's

    May 15, 2016
    Silicon Valley
    Huh? Formulaic? While I don't really care whoever likes/dislikes Zep for whatever reason, I couldn't let this go, even though you did state that it was your opinion. Either formulaic doesn't mean what you think it means, or else you need to actually listen to their albums.
    Unless today is Opposite Day, and no one told me.
     

  7. 4pickupguy

    4pickupguy Poster Extraordinaire

    May 12, 2013
    Fort Worth, Texas
    http://www.furious.com/perfect/yardbirds2.html

    Zeppelin was perfectly capable of writing great innovative tunes. There are many examples of this throughout thier later career. But doesnt change the fact that they did what they did early on. Apparently, they pissed off almost everyone they collaborated with. If I ever were a Zep fan, I'd still feel the same way. They just reaped what they sewed with regard to the people they collaborated with.

    The op posed a question, and with a little history, well, theres your answer.
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2016

  8. awasson

    awasson Friend of Leo's Gold Supporter

    Age:
    53
    Nov 18, 2010
    Vancouver
    Hmmm... That seems to be biased by opinion, rather than illuminated by history but I get it, you don't like them. That's fine; to each their own. I'm pretty sure in the discussions I follow, you and I share more opinions than we oppose so I'll take it for what it's worth.

    I did do some looking around to see if I could find some info why two guitar heroes who I quite like don't like the other guitar hero, I like and here's what I found...

    Keith Richards has trashed everyone from Led Zeppelin, to the Beatles, to Blind Faith over the years, so you know he can be a little bit critical. That said, he's always been generous of Jimmy Page. Most recently, last year he said the following when asked about Led Zeppelin:

    I love Jimmy Page, but as a band, no,” Richards is quoted as saying. “With John Bonham thundering down the highway in an uncontrolled 18-wheeler … He had cornered the market there. Jimmy is a brilliant player. But I always felt there was something a little hollow about it, you know?”

    Pete Townshend is pretty vocal about who he likes but his opinion changed from time to time.

    1990 interview when he was asked about the one note solo on I can see for miles.
    (http://www.musicradar.com/news/guitars/classic-guitar-interview-pete-townshend-1990-530325)

    When everybody else was after guitar hero status, you turned around and played a one note solo on I Can See For Miles. Was that Townshend the anti-hero?


    "Well, maybe. I'm sure it was a kind of defence mechanism. You have to remember that I knew Jimmy Page – Led Zeppelin weren't formed then but I'd seen him in various bands and if anything his playing slowed down as he got older! He was an extraordinary player, arrogant, flash...

    In a 1995 interview, Townshend talks about Led Zeppelin,
    (http://www.feelnumb.com/2013/08/19/pete-townshend-hates-led-zeppelin-jealousy-or-joking/)

    “I don’t like a single thing that they have done, I hate the fact that I’m ever even slightly compared to them. I just never ever liked them. It’s a real problem to me cause as people I think they are really really great guys. Just never liked the band. And I don’t know if I have a problem, block too, because they, well that became so much bigger than The Who in so many ways, in their chosen field, I’ve never liked them.”



    An interview from Gabriela Tully Claymore @gabrielajunetc | May 7, 2015 - 4:33 pm
    (http://www.stereogum.com/1800218/ve...tify-and-why-he-doesnt-enjoy-performing/news/)

    I spoke with Robert Plant last year. He basically suggested that Led Zeppelin was something he did when he was younger and he has no desire to go back there. Can you understand that sort of attitude?


    I completely understand that, of course I do, but I don’t want to say what leaps into my mind. Robert could probably do everything that he wants to do. He could do the occasional Led Zeppelin comeback and make a lot of people very happy. There’s a kind of churlishness to that [opinion]. But he’s his own man, and he has to make his own decisions.

    The person that I’ve thought a lot about since John Bonham’s death is John Paul Jones. He’s a beautiful looking man and a beautiful musician. He’s a fantastic experimenter in modern electronic music and other things, and he’s sort of been sitting there. It would be interesting to see what he could bring to a new Led Zeppelin project. I think he was much more in the front line of Led Zeppelin music on keyboard work because nobody else in the band played it. It was a prog rock era in respect to him.




    I've got a feeling if Pete Townsend was asked today, he'd say he didn't like Page because there was the possibility that he and Jeff Beck could have broken up the Who but also probably because they (Led Zeppelin) became such a massive success and that infringed upon the success of the Who.
     
    4pickupguy likes this.

  9. 4pickupguy

    4pickupguy Poster Extraordinaire

    May 12, 2013
    Fort Worth, Texas
    Yeah, nice try but, not so. The history is not my opinion, and is the entire impetus of this thread. Why do rock stars dislike LZ. If you go back through all my replies you will find that I only EVER mention Jake Holmes case. i actually find some of the dog piling of other songs they allegedly Page-arized a bit thin. The case with Jake Holmes is so outrageously obvious, it is indefensible, as those who rush to rationalize it have proven by the ridiculous gymnastics they had to do just to respond. How do you propose that this is my opinion? I stated the facts and was careful not to mis-step as "thread appointed hall monitor" to stick to the documented history. Where there is smoke theres a liar. Where LZ is concerned is are forest fires of people calling them out on something EVEN LZ EVENTUALLY ADMITTED TO. Like I said all along, I have no dog in this hunt and even I can see there is some DOG PILING going on, but if I were a rock star in Becks, Holmes, Claptons etc shoes, I would have a dog in this fight. I could care less about what grace or defense people are willing to lavish on Page and LZ. He stole that song and it was proven and they paid that man a fraction of what was owed to him. Yes its over and done with until somebody post another thread asking why such disrespect for LZ.
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2016

  10. Elmore

    Elmore Tele-Holic

    548
    Dec 18, 2011
    Atlanta
    Also, remember that Zeppelin were the first crotch rockers. That turned off some of their peers. I knew an "older" dude in the 1980's that referred to them as Led Zipper. I always thought that was funny. And Rolling Stone Magazine slagged them for a long time, which probably bred contempt.
     

  11. Hammerhead

    Hammerhead Tele-Meister

    229
    Jun 30, 2008
    Aberdeen
    I was going to say because of a certain Led Zep member's unhealthy relationship with a 13 year old girl. But that applies to a member of the Stones as well.
     
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  12. awasson

    awasson Friend of Leo's Gold Supporter

    Age:
    53
    Nov 18, 2010
    Vancouver
    ...And many, many others.
     

  13. Rsiferd

    Rsiferd TDPRI Member

    6
    Jul 6, 2015
    Canada Ontario
    No kidding. If you want to be really anal about it compare the Spirit song to Michelle by the Beatles. The Zeppelin song uses the same progression, but the Spirit opening is lifted almost verbatim from Michelle. I guess Sir Paul should lawyer up.
     
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  14. wyclif

    wyclif Tele-Afflicted

    Nov 29, 2011
    Philadelphia
    I love The Who to pieces, but I don't care what Pete says. This is 100% badass:

     
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  15. burntfrijoles

    burntfrijoles Friend of Leo's

    Feb 12, 2010
    Jacksonville
    You must have heard a different version of Michelle. I have never heard those tune compared and never remotely thought they were similar progressions.
     

  16. Wrong-Note Rod

    Wrong-Note Rod Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

    Mar 4, 2009
    atlanta

    nope.

    At least not according to what I heard, which was Holmes and his often repeated quote about Page stealing "I'm Confused".... "what the hell, let him have it".

    Thats not exactly doing everything legally to protect his music.

    I dont listen to led zep anywhere near as much as I did when I was a teen... but if you had told me in 1977 that Led Zeppelin would become a band the younger generation hated with a passion... I never would have believed it.

    Its quite incredible really, I mean, in my youth, they were large and in charge, way over the top of just about everybody else.
     
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  17. 4pickupguy

    4pickupguy Poster Extraordinaire

    May 12, 2013
    Fort Worth, Texas
    yeah, legal part I was refering was the part where he copywrited his song in order to keep the rights to it. Him uttering "let him have" was not the simple legal process Page needed to go thru to secure the right to record it. He may have then have had an incentive to credit him for it. I dont hate zep.
     

  18. joebloggs13

    joebloggs13 Tele-Meister

    195
    Jun 14, 2017
    Canada
    Heavy...
     
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  19. RL52

    RL52 TDPRI Member

    91
    Jul 9, 2013
    NY
    ...and had no problem giving due credit, Zep kind of did it underhanded.

    Stones #1 for me.
     

  20. DougM

    DougM Tele-Holic

    593
    Jul 5, 2017
    Honolulu, HI
    Watched the Knebworth videos that were posted. Sloppy and boring. Plant seems to not even want to be there. I saw them on tour just before the third album was released, and they were amazing. I think it was all downhill after that. Too much drugs and girls. And their manager was the biggest D****ebag ever, except for Page , stealing every song he could and then settling out of court, so he didn't have to admit any of it. Maybe if he had cared as much about his band as his heroin things might have been different. I feel sorry for anyone who thinks that "Song Remains the Same" is good live Zep. It's terrible! You have no idea if you never saw them at their best.
     
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