Asher Guitars WD Music Products Amplified Parts Mod Kits DIY Nordstarnd Pickups darrenriley.com
Asher Guitars WD Music Products Amplified Parts Mod Kits DIY Nordstarnd Pickups Warmoth.com
Asher Guitars WD Music Products Amplified Parts Mod Kits DIY Nordstarnd Pickups Warmoth.com

Why Did You Add A Sub To Your PA ?

Discussion in 'Band Wagon' started by Pineears, Jul 7, 2018.

  1. Pineears

    Pineears Tele-Holic

    882
    Jun 25, 2016
    Texas
    Yesterday was sub/mains setup day. Tried crosssover at 80, 100, and 120 HZ a dozen times. Played a variety of tracks thru the system that have combinations of drums, bass, rythym guitar, piano, Steel Guitar, fiddle. At each freq I also listened to sub only and mains only. Then at each freq I sang and played Tele with some tracks. 80 is out, just not enough content going to the sub. My favorite was 120 hz. But then later in the day I liked 100. All at moderate volumes in the studio. With sub and mains away from walls in the center of room.
     
    Paul in Colorado likes this.

  2. Floyd Eye

    Floyd Eye Tele-Meister

    Age:
    49
    252
    Feb 2, 2018
    St. Louis
    It's definitely higher than 40Hz. I don't know the model but the two I looked at were 41 and 44.

    Either way most subs do NOT go down to 20Hz. In fact there is very little useful material at 20 Hz. 20Hz is very near the lowest frequencies audible to humans. Unless you are in a hip hop or maybe reggae band you don't need or want to get anywhere near 20 Hz. Having your subs working hard to reproduce frequencies that aren't present or aren't audible makes no more sense than having your tops ( mains) working hard to reproduce 40 Hz. I high pass my subs at 40 Hz or often a little higher and my band plays alt/hard rock, like Deftones and Chevelle.

    The advantage of subs for bands that are playing music that doesn't benefit from deep, chest pounding bass and kick is still well evident. Reproducing and ATTEMPTING to reproduce low frequencies takes a lot of energy and creates a lot of heat. When you use a crossover or a filter to keep anything below let's say 90 Hz out of your tops, you are making them much more efficient. Increasing volume and reducing wear. Same with the subs. When you high pass them so they are not trying to reproduce 20 Hz. which almost no one can hear even if there was material to be heard in that frequency range, they don't work nearly as hard, leaving power for the frequencies you actually do want reproduced.


    Again, almost no prosumer grade subs go anywhere near 20Hz, nor would you want/need them to.
     

  3. Floyd Eye

    Floyd Eye Tele-Meister

    Age:
    49
    252
    Feb 2, 2018
    St. Louis

    120 is usually too high. It depends on the room, the tops and the subs, but more often that not I am around 100 Hz.
     
    Pineears likes this.

  4. Billnchristy

    Billnchristy Tele-Holic

    744
    Sep 21, 2017
    Georgia
    As stated before, if you let the sub do the work it was designed for your mains amps can put their power where you need it and not waste it flopping around a woofer that can barely pass as a bass speaker.

    Doing without is kinda like saying we don’t have a lead guitar so let’s have a tambourine solo.

    I would also add, since my experience is more on the recording side that you have a good sub in your studio but tune it on the weaker side so your mixes don’t sound weak in lesser systems. I always burn a track and listen to it downstairs, on my hifi, through headphones and in the car. It has to sound good in all venues.
     

  5. Paul in Colorado

    Paul in Colorado Telefied Ad Free Member

    Mar 17, 2003
    Fort Collins, CO
    You'll learn more setting it up and experimenting then most anything else. How does it sound to your ears? When I was doing live sound regularly, I liked to get in and set up long before anyone else was there so I could get the system tuned to the room and have the basics down before the artists even arrived.

    I went to a show a couple of weeks ago and the system operator (I won't even call him a "soundman") was still getting the vocal levels right during the first songs. C'mon, dude? You didn't even ring out the vocal mics? Feedback during a show in this day and age? Sorry for the rant...
     
    Floyd Eye likes this.

  6. cyclopean

    cyclopean Friend of Leo's

    Aug 14, 2009
    innsmouth, MA
    it's on the wish list for my band. we want those drum machine bass drums to feel like a punch in the collarbone.
     
    Floyd Eye likes this.

  7. jimilee

    jimilee Tele-Holic

    Age:
    47
    582
    Dec 19, 2017
    Chattanooga
    Originally because it sounds awesome. We did use them in small clubs. Now they are end tables in my living room.
     
    Martin R likes this.

  8. Pineears

    Pineears Tele-Holic

    882
    Jun 25, 2016
    Texas
    Love a good sub in my surround sound. But I only have one.
     

  9. String Tree

    String Tree Doctor of Teleocity

    Dec 8, 2010
    Up North
    When you play for folks who want to Dance and you have Drums, Subs are a Must.
    Your Midrange Speakers can do what they were designed to do when you have Subs.
     
    Pineears likes this.

  10. Paul in Colorado

    Paul in Colorado Telefied Ad Free Member

    Mar 17, 2003
    Fort Collins, CO
    I did some research and found that my subs are rated down to 40 Hz. That's enough for my needs, semi acoustic folk-country-blues-rock. I also found out that they made a processor for my subs. The only ones I found have been sold already, but they are cheap enough that I'll get one if I can find one.

    Here it is if anyone sees one.
     

    Attached Files:


  11. Mr. Lumbergh

    Mr. Lumbergh Poster Extraordinaire

    Jun 13, 2013
    Initech, Inc.
    Why Did You Add A Sub To Your PA ?
    'Cause it's all about dat bass, bout dat bass, no treble...
     
    String Tree likes this.

  12. muudcat

    muudcat Tele-Holic

    736
    Jan 3, 2010
    Fountain City, Wi
    I purchased a RCF Evox8( 12 in. woofer) last year. This thing just kills the low end supposedly down to 40 hz. I'm only using a single side since I'm just solo but I could easily see a pair of them handling a band in a small to medium room. I put a foot stomp through it and it sounds like a kick drum, plus I set it up behind me so no need for a monitor and no feed back which is amazing. I'm surrounded in sound
     
    Floyd Eye and Pineears like this.

  13. Floyd Eye

    Floyd Eye Tele-Meister

    Age:
    49
    252
    Feb 2, 2018
    St. Louis

    Regardless of what was said earlier in the thread, most subs only go down to between 30-40Hz and for the vast majority of music that's all the lower they need to go. Somehow I doubt this forum is full up with electronica/techno guys, so it's a moot point. Most engineers for rock, even hard rock are going to high pass around 40.
     

  14. Pineears

    Pineears Tele-Holic

    882
    Jun 25, 2016
    Texas
    Looking up Bass and Kick freq I found and interesting article for mixing bass versus kick. I posted it under the recording forum.
     

  15. Preacher

    Preacher Friend of Leo's

    Apr 17, 2007
    Big D
    Four string low E typically hits about the 40Hz range up to almost 400Hz for the range of the instrument. It is easy to remember, 40-400.

    Now throw in a five string bass and you need to go down another 10Hz to a 30-400 range.

    I use this when selecting a bass to play through a PA system. If they have good high quality subs, then the 5 can stay. If they have crappy subs then we stick to the four stringer.
     
    Martin R likes this.

IMPORTANT: Treat everyone here with respect, no matter how difficult!
No sex, drug, political, religion or hate discussion permitted here.