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Why Can’t They Treat Depression?

Discussion in 'Bad Dog Cafe' started by R. Stratenstein, Feb 16, 2018.

  1. andyboygenius

    andyboygenius TDPRI Member

    Dec 25, 2013
    Newcastle Australia
    My deepest sympathies and condolences friend.

    The only 'cure' for any medical condition is immunisation and even the developed world has an eversion to its proven scientific application.

    As for depression the nature of its biochemical effects debilitates the sufferer. You become your own worst enemy despite your efforts to 'battle the affliction' as it undermines your motivation and enjoyment of life. The things that ultimately live for give you no pleasure, your body just won't make those happy chemicals.

    As someone who's had to deal with depression throughout my life I can only say you can and should get help. You can't do it on your own. At the same time only you can make the effort to help yourself. Putting the work into being as physically heathy as you can, avoid alcohol and drugs which are counter productive despite being dangerously alluring for treating symptoms! The rock and roll lifestyle was a terrible role model to me as a youngster. I remember Alain Bourdin telling Iggy Pop that in an interview recently and I had to second the notion. You don't need drugs to play music, even reggae believe it or not!

    My favourite on stage banter came from the lead singer of the Hives. In the middle of a performance he called out to the audience 'If you love yourself then let me hear you say yeah!' which was met with an uncomfortable silence. He said it response. Then he said......Well if you don't love yourself how can you love me? Before launching into another instant mosher.

    All the best friends congratulations you already have music on your side.
    StrangerNY likes this.
  2. JayFreddy

    JayFreddy Poster Extraordinaire

    Nov 6, 2006
    Dallas TX USA
    A good friend's wife committed suicide on Thursday. We were planning to get together this weekend. I found out Friday morning. I'm still pretty shook up. My friend is devastated.

    I wish I had an answer.

    Right now my friend is surrounded by his family, which is good, but I'm worried about what will happen when the all go home.

    He really didn't deserve this. He's a nice guy.
  3. william tele

    william tele Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

    Nov 7, 2009
    Kansas City, MO
    Gosh...that's hard. My condolences to all...
    JayFreddy likes this.
  4. william tele

    william tele Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

    Nov 7, 2009
    Kansas City, MO
    I've known two people who chose their own time. One was in physical torment, the other was in mental torment. Of course I miss them. I also admire and respect them for not letting others decide how much they should endure.

    The only thing that sickens me is the dogma and stigma associated with a human making the most important decision of their life...
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2018
    OneHenry likes this.
  5. rad1

    rad1 Tele-Holic

    Aug 5, 2015
    Santa Cruz CA
    I’m so sorry for the OP’s loss and the other posters who have lost people.

    Ending ones life due to some unbearable physical ailment is something most of us understand and it is even legal in some states like Calif where I live. There are restrictions and it must be under a doctors care.

    Ending ones life due to depression or mental illness is a completely different matter. One thing western medicine does very poorly is deal with the mentality ill. My family is in the medical field, doctors and my wife had a private practice as a therapist for decades and most of her patients were there because of depression. My wife helped a lot of folks, she was good. Sad to say but about every 7 years a full time therapist loses a patient to suicide yet my wife worked her entire career and never lost a patient.

    The only thing I can say, get that person into counseling early on, with someone good. Almost anyone can hang out a shingle nowadays and do therapy, it does not mean they have had good training or experience. Research the people who are going to be working with that person you love for chances are they will be far to overwhelmed to do that themselves.

    I wish there was a good answer to depression, I really do.
    JayFreddy likes this.
  6. JayFreddy

    JayFreddy Poster Extraordinaire

    Nov 6, 2006
    Dallas TX USA
    Tough call.

    The amount of pain and destruction inflicted on my friend is unfathomable.

    It's hard to respect his wife's decision. She had other options. I guess mental illness blinded her to them.

    We have no choice but to understand and eventually forgive, but I can't see how it was a respectable decision.
  7. william tele

    william tele Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

    Nov 7, 2009
    Kansas City, MO
    This is an emotional time. I understand. Not the time to beat my own drum about my passion. Sorry...:oops:
    JayFreddy likes this.
  8. FenderGyrl

    FenderGyrl Friend of Leo's

    Jul 22, 2012
    I'm sorry for your loss.

    Grieve for your friend, allow yourself to heal. Please don't be hard on yourself thinking you could have done more. I suffer from depression. Have for many years.
    It's just like a shadow that follows me around 24/7. Sometimes I cast a long shadow, sometimes not so much. Most of us depression sufferers are masters at hiding it and functioning. We also become exhausted from doing it. This manifests itself as "I don't really feel up to doing this or that today".

    No one knows when I'm depressed. I'm the funniest person you could ever be around when I'm depressed. People tell me I should do Stand Up Comedy again.

    Some of my best guitar playing and/or performing happened / happens when I was / am depressed. It is the strangest condition ever.

    A depressed person has to reach out and be honest with those around him or her.
    I will tell friends when I am feeling off ... I use percentages when describing it.

    Example: I feel off today= 25% physical / 50 % mental.
    This way they know whether my Chronic Illness is wearing at me, or the Depression. If its physical, they cut me slack. If its mental, they coax me to do stuff, which leads to me doing other stuff. Like leaving the house, going shopping, going out for lunch or dinner, etc.

    My point is, if I wasn't honest with myself, or my friends ... no one would be able to help me. It's too bad your friend couldn't figure out a way to live with his depression. I'm sure he gave it everything it had. :(

    Don't be too hard on yourself. You probably helped him more than you'll ever know.

    Last edited: Jul 7, 2018
  9. R. Stratenstein

    R. Stratenstein Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

    Aug 3, 2010
    Loganville, Ga.
    I’m sorry to see this thread revived because of the others who have lost someone to suicide since my friend took his life in February. And I very much appreciate the kind words and sharing how others have coped, or tried to cope both with a suicide, and with depression. I commend anyone who doesn’t know and hasn’t suffered real, deep clinical depression to watch the video that Bristlehound posted in post #5 of this thread. Not that it makes being a survivor any easier, or helps you “get over lt”, but that depression BECOMES its worst victims, they lose their selfness and as the video says, victims start seeing no point in living a miserable life that’s been totally co-opted.
    I may have said it before, but in Vic’s case, I think his can-do, if-it’s-broke-fix-it-now personality lacked the patience and perserverence it would have taken to get the meds properly balanced, maybe for the right counselor to be found that could help with aspect, and what ever else it might have taken. In this respect, I think the video might be a little overly optimistic, as some cases remain intractable for a long time. It is tragic that relief might be a “better late than never proposition”, and so long in coming for some that they can bear waiting no longer. If the thought that you are loved, and your loss will genuinely hurt, irreparably, those who love you, please try to hang on and fight off the black dog.
    telemnemonics and JayFreddy like this.
  10. OneHenry

    OneHenry Tele-Holic

    Apr 16, 2018
    North carolina

    a major problem is that people who are in chronic pain are unable to obtain pain relief, the DEA prefers that people who are in chronic pain just "live with " the pain rather than take doctor prescribed opioids.

    Some, or many, people, in chronic pain choose not to live with the pain.

    Some unformation regarding fibromyalgia pain:

    remember that lady Gaga has far more money, access to medical care, and support than the vast number of people with fibromyalgia.
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2018
    william tele likes this.
  11. ndcaster

    ndcaster Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

    Nov 14, 2013
    Good list, and the dark mirror image of it is also useful:

    eating crap food,

    staying up late with lights on,

    never exercising,

    working in a job you hate,

    isolating yourself (with gaming or whatever),

    keep doing the same old same old,

    telling yourself jaded and cynical things all the frickin time,

    convincing yourself you're just a bag of meat with no meaning and no future.

    If you're doing lots of those things, it might be time to reassess.
    Fiesta Red and LocoTex like this.
  12. OneHenry

    OneHenry Tele-Holic

    Apr 16, 2018
    North carolina
    Some of us are bags of meat with no meaning and no future. I was forced to retire ten years ago because of fibromyalgia. I can't work when I hurt all of the time. I can work when taking mild pain meds, such as tramadol. I can't even keep the kitchen clean or do yard work because I hurt all of the time. I worked at an amusement park since I was 14, and worked full time sine I was 16. Worked over 60 hours a week at a supermarket when I was 16 (made great money, and became a superket manager). After I was about 18, I usually worked two jobs. Now I can't work at a meaning ful job.

    I am fortunate that I had great jobs while I could work, I have a good retirement to help me live now that I can't work.
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2018
  13. ndcaster

    ndcaster Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

    Nov 14, 2013
    I didn't mean to sound flippant or comprehensive

    fibromyalgia sounds incredibly rough, onehenry

    you may have effects on the world you don't realize, effects which make even tough situations like yours meaningful

    I believe that sincerely
    telemnemonics likes this.
  14. OneHenry

    OneHenry Tele-Holic

    Apr 16, 2018
    North carolina

    Thanks,I wasn't bothered by your comment. I sometimes say stuff like that too ;). My fibro has affected my partner; he has developed depression and is taking medication for it. I have taken a number of antidepressants and other meds that are supposed to help fibro, and they don't do a thing for fibro. It is documented that people living with people with fibromyalgia can "catch" depression.
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2018
    telemnemonics likes this.
  15. Muku

    Muku Tele-Meister

    Jun 9, 2008
    Santa Barbara
    I wish you well through all your struggles. That is a lot of duress.

    I have a 20 something and he goes in and out, too. exercise helps him.

    Not sure scientifically but I read an LA Times article a few years ago about MJ at an early formative years affecting brain cognitive development.
    Before the brain is full grown. Apparently can have some developmental issues from a bath of THC.
    I forget which hemisphere is affected but daily use at 13 is apparently is not a good thing. The blue light screens after 9PM are not good either.
    A lot of kids were babysat with gaming in their room instead of out in the experience of our physical world.

    Then there's the coddled preadolescent driving here and there. Peer group pressure Social Media bullying. Lack of hugs and encouragement.
    Looking at other's accomplishments and video riches. Not excelling scholastically. Broken single parent homes.

    Yet ...

    One could make a potent argument there are steps, resources to feel better.
    With luck and hard work there are people and vocations to explore... in general opportunities in many parts of America, if your stuck in your hometown.

    The character of a man is not the missteps ailments or burdens that one carries. It is the dealing of them that is important if you can get the strength to make a move away from some of your reality. One step one negative thought cycle, one new friend at a time.
  16. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Doctor of Teleocity

    Mar 2, 2010
    So sad, I can't imagine and I have many many times checked that my wife was still breathing in the middle of the night.
    Depression, anxiety, drinking to dull the pain and blow off steam, manipulative family influences, lost motivation, frustration with med changes/ side effects/ withdrawals before starting new meds. And sadly some marginally ethical mental health professionals.

    I'm oddly grateful to have nearly died from drug addiction because that got me membership in a 12 step program where along with a rigorous transformative step work process for those who choose to work hard, we have peer support and also guidance from a chosen more experienced member (a sponsor).

    My sponsor died of cancer a few weeks ago and I called up a man I'd met in 2012 who lives 400 miles away to ask him to be my new sponsor.
    He is 30 years in recovery where I'm 20 years, and he is busy with life and many similar struggles I'm dealing with. He finds time to talk to me because others found time to do the same for him, and because the principle of selfless service is central to our finding gratitude amidst pain, regret and loss.

    It sure would be nice if there was something like this for depression/ anxiety sufferers.

    Tomorrow I'm going to a memorial service for a friend who relapsed and OD'd, but who did some good work several years ago to get a 12 step commitment into a jail, and also made it a point to call me regularly to see how I was doing when my wife was in really bad shape.

    Paying $150/ hr to someone who won't answer the phone when you're in trouble seems to have limited function in a 24 hour a day struggle for depression sufferers.
    JayFreddy and william tele like this.
  17. fmmlp

    fmmlp TDPRI Member

    Jul 19, 2017
    Buenos Aires
    I'm sorry for your lose.
    william tele likes this.
  18. jaybones

    jaybones Friend of Leo's

    I can tell you first hand that it can be treated, and with a combination of meditation (SSRI's- selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors, keeps the serotonin from immediately being absorbed by the nerve cell that released it) and talk therapy can be managed.

    Never really cured, always need to guard against dark thoughts which can become a pattern.

    And as far as suicide, only by the grace of God did I not succeed (.40 Winchester Ranger Hollowpoint from temple out top of skull).

    My family and closest friends had no idea, so you can't see everything coming. And ultimately if someone decides to take their own life you can't stop them.
    JayFreddy and telemnemonics like this.
  19. Mr. Lumbergh

    Mr. Lumbergh Poster Extraordinaire

    Jun 13, 2013
    Initech, Inc.
    No no no, one of the primary side effects of these drugs is suicide. They should be used only as a last resort, but instead they seem to be the go-to in our society.
  20. william tele

    william tele Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

    Nov 7, 2009
    Kansas City, MO
    WTF? Have you posted this before? That's horrible! Do you tell the story or is it too much?
    telemnemonics likes this.
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