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Discussion in 'Vintage Tele Discussion Forum (pre-1974)' started by 383roller, Sep 9, 2015.
Anyone have a definitive time for finish change?
scroll down to "finishes".
also read this
Also bear in mind that many CUSTOM colors (OLY WHITE i.e.),colors not overcoats, were ALWAYS poly.
In the 60's and 70's Olympic White was acrylic (Lucite).
Poly-acrylic whatever....same thing in my book since they don't let the wood..."breathe"....
Not remotely the same. Acryl is a lacquer, just like nitro. You will have to re-write your book.
Acrylic is PLASTIC . Does it let the wood "breathe" like nitro does?
(Is nitro plastic too?)
I thought the wood was killed before they used it for guitar bodies ... They use live wood that breathes ... ?
Slow-drying solvent-based lacquers that contain nitrocellulose, a resin obtained from the nitration of cotton and other cellulostic materials, were developed in the early 1920s, and extensively used in the automobile industry for 30 years. Prior to their introduction, mass-produced automotive finishes were limited in colour, with Japan Black being the fastest drying and thus most popular. General Motors Oakland automobile brand automobile was the first (1923) to introduce one of the new fast drying nitrocelluous lacquers, a bright blue, produced by DuPont under their Duco tradename.
These lacquers are also used on wooden products, furniture primarily, and on musical instruments and other objects. Nitrocellulose lacquers are also used to make firework fuses waterproof. The nitrocellulose and other resins and plasticizers are dissolved in the solvent, and each coat of lacquer dissolves some of the previous coat. These lacquers were a huge improvement over earlier automobile and furniture finishes, both in ease of application and in colour retention. The preferred method of applying quick-drying lacquers is by spraying, and the development of nitrocellulose lacquers led to the first extensive use of spray guns. Nitrocellulose lacquers produce a hard yet flexible, durable finish that can be polished to a high sheen. Drawbacks of these lacquers include the hazardous nature of the solvent, which is flammable and toxic, and the hazards of nitrocellulose in the manufacturing process. Lacquer grade of soluble nitrocellulose is closely related to the more highly nitrated form which is used to make explosives. They become relatively non-toxic after approximately a month since at this point, the lacquer has evaporated most of the solvents used in its production.
Lacquers using acrylic resin, a synthetic polymer, were developed in the 1950s. Acrylic resin is colourless, transparent thermoplastic, obtained by the polymerization of derivatives of acrylic acid. Acrylic is also used in enamel paints, which have the advantage of not needing to be buffed to obtain a shine. Enamels, however, are slow drying. The advantage of acrylic lacquer is its exceptionally fast drying time. The use of lacquers in automobile finishes was discontinued when tougher, more durable, weather- and chemical-resistant two-component polyurethane coatings were developed. The system usually consists of a primer, colour coat and clear topcoat, commonly known as clear coat finishes.
I once did an oil stain, rattle can black for the burst rim, and then oil-based poly over the top with a brush and the poly melted the black paint. A mess! One of the spray painting videos I watched later recommended using Acrylic base color with a poly clear top coat so that the two finishes played nice together.
Any time I look for acrylic I can never find a clear spec paint for it other than kids craft paints. Here is an example white paint from HD:
"Ultra Pure White Semi-Gloss" .. one of many colors
"Self-Priming Interior Semi-Gloss Enamel is 100% acrylic" .. So is it enamel or acrylic? Is it slow drying like enamel or fast drying like acrylic? Will the poly melt it?
"100% acrylic finish for easy cleaning" ... must be acrylic! They repeated this twice now 200% must count for something?
"Exceptional latex formula provides a mildew resistant finish" ... now wait a minute! They made it from Latex?
And so it goes. I have not ventured into color painting again. I had someone ask me this week about a white Tele so I may try again soon.
I've been using the water-based Varathane gloss floor finish and like it so will keep it but I need to find a base color paint easy to find locally that will coexist with the Varathane. I know Reranch and Stew-Mac are out there but what might be in the typical big-box retail or local hardware stores?
Now you have killed the "breathing wood" myth that thousands of guitarist's believe and hundreds of guitar makers make money from.
Shame on you...
My assumption was that the '67 to '68 neck finish change was pretty definitive, with the '67 having nitro and the '68 having a plasticky poly finish, though the headstock kept the older finish for some years.
There was no "definitive timeline".
As has been said, Fender was using acrylics and nitrocellulose (often both on the same instrument - a colour coat of acrylic and a clear coat of nitro) from way back. In fact from 1963 onwards Fender was sealing all their guitar bodies with Fullerplast, which was polyester, before applying colour coats so who knows how that poor wood breathed!
Polyester colour coats were introduced in 1968 when Fender was sold to CBS but nitro soldiered on and some Teles - like '72 Customs and Deluxes - were finished in both poly (natural, blonde and black) and nitro (sunburst and walnut) well into the mid 70's. Polyurethane replaced polyester in late 1981.
The headstock was sprayed nitro because the decal (now under the finish) reacted with poly. I'm not sure but the nitro on headstock lasted to the 80's.
I'm quite sure my '76 sunburst Custom is poly. A lot of it, thickskin.
Many are but I've also seen more than a few sunburst 70's Customs that were finished in nitro. Although by as late as '76 they may all have been poly.
My black '74 Custom is most definitely thickskin poly.
Yeah - shame on me ... Hee, hee!
Just sold a 16 year old MIM '72 Keef model Tele Custom reissue.
1/4" of poly/acrylic/plastic/whatever on the body.
One of the loudest Tele's acoustically I've ever had. I guess it was a heavy breather. But - the pickups sucked so I sold it.
Nitro/plastic ? No matter.
Pickups then amp then speaker followed by how big the neck is.
That's the big 4. Guitar could be made out of granite and finished in vegetable soup - no matter.
Here we go again...
I have seen the change more from late 68 to early 69 !