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When is a band not a band anymore?

Discussion in 'Music to Your Ears' started by tahoebob54, Jul 16, 2017.

  1. nojazzhere

    nojazzhere Tele-Afflicted

    Age:
    65
    Feb 3, 2017
    Foat Wuth, Texas
    To me, it depends on how the band keeps on after someone leaves, as well as the circumstances of their departure.....The Who is still The Who because Pete and Roger are there....Keith died (didn't quit) and John kept on until he died.
    On the other hand, Chicago died when Terry Kath died.....didn't matter that 6/7ths of the band kept going, Terry was the heart AND soul of Chicago. Yeah, I know they were probably more successful later, but it doesn't matter. The Stones will be the Stones until Mick or Keef leave. Ray Davies will be the Kinks as long as he wishes, with or without Dave. Ian Anderson IS Jethro Tull. I could go on and on....there is no hard and fast rule. (at least in my mind) Some people might even say the Animals ceased to be when Alan Price left. (Eric might dispute that) Whew!!! I'll shut up now......
     
    joealso and Teleterr like this.

  2. MDent77

    MDent77 Tele-Holic

    783
    Jun 13, 2016
    New England
    Without Ritchie Blackmore and Jon Lord it's a cover band.
     

  3. xafinity

    xafinity Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

    Dec 24, 2015
    my Mom's basement
    Ive been through Minden, NV a few times. Isn't that the town with no gas for 120mi either direction?
    That Spinner tune brings back a lot of happy memories.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2017

  4. Anode100

    Anode100 Friend of Leo's

    May 9, 2014
    Behind my beard.
    Iron Maiden wasn't Iron Maiden without Bruce Dickinson.

    The Smashing Pumpkins last few tours were a Billy Corgan solo act, and I'm not sure how many miles AC/DC legitimately have left in the tank.

    There ought to be a 'dignity' clause in music contracts, whereby if the band loses its main focus / signature / % of personnel, they have to leave before they become a sham.

    That might be too honest though...
     
    3-Chord-Genius likes this.

  5. archtop_fjk

    archtop_fjk TDPRI Member

    77
    Aug 4, 2009
    Lebanon, NH
    The Beatles were never the same after they got rid of Pete Best...:D
     
    Flakey likes this.

  6. Artunes

    Artunes Tele-Meister

    Age:
    61
    176
    Mar 9, 2016
    Oshkosh, B'gosh
    I've played shows opening for...

    The Mamas and The Papas with John Phillips as the only original member.
    Herman's Hermits with no Peter Noone.
    The Lovin' Spoonful with the drummer as the only original member.
    The Grass Roots with Rob Grill as the only original member.
    The Guess Who with the bass player as the only original member.

    The Mamas and The Papas weren't bad. The lineup included Scott Mackenzie doing Denny's parts, Mackenzie Phillips doing her mom's parts, and Spanky McFarlane doing Cass's parts.

    Herman's Hermits were not terrible, but with Peter Noone missing, it wasn't the same at all.

    We opened for The Grass Roots a few times. They had a lot of stuff pre-recorded that they played along to. My band's keyboard player had played with them when they were having hits ('69 to '72), and he didn't want to go onstage with them when we opened for them. Now they are touring without any original members.

    The Guess Who and The Lovin' Spoonful were terrible.
     

  7. Jim W

    Jim W Friend of Leo's

    Mar 17, 2003
    My opinion is no Kinks without Ray and Dave but they need Mick. The best Kinks albums had these three guys, the ones with Bub Henrit were good but not the same.
     
    Geoff738 likes this.

  8. Durtdog

    Durtdog Poster Extraordinaire

    May 19, 2004
    Tennessee
    Grand Funk Railroad was playing a local festival and I got all excited to see them...until I learned Mark Farner wasn't with them.

    IMO, no Mark Farner, no Grand Funk.
     
    nojazzhere, Fiesta Red and refin like this.

  9. VintageSG

    VintageSG Tele-Afflicted Ad Free Member

    Mar 31, 2016
    Huddersfield, UK
    Dr. Feelgood.
    First, Wilko left/was ousted. Gypie was OK, more than OK, but not Wilko. Various guitarists came and went, then Sparko + Figure left.
    BOO! ( that's going back some years! )
    They're still going. They still sound good. Lee died in 1994, so they have no original members now. They're not, in my opinion Dr. Feelgood though. If they'd changed the name slightly to 'The Dr. Feelgood Experience' or somesuch...
    IMO, no Lee Brilleaux, no Feelgood. They still rock the rafters, but...
     

  10. Jim622

    Jim622 Tele-Meister

    Skynyrd - No (Segway to)
    Blackfoot - No
    The Who - No - Pete has carried Roger from the beginning
    Chicago - No
    Steppenwolf - No

    It's all financial, be in a band with who ever, but they are diminishing the legacy of the band, even play the hits, but face reality. Id rather go see Pete Townshend solo or with Roger, than The Who - they were once an awe inspiring four piece, now its a Broadway show. I'd go see Gary Rossington and Friends rather then Lynyrd Skynyrd. You don't see Paul and Ringo touring as the Beatles
     

  11. claes

    claes Tele-Meister

    498
    Aug 20, 2007
    sweden
    When is a band no longer a band? When one of the guitarists insists on bringing his japanese wife with him in to the studio, and no one is aloud to come up with any ideas as the bassist is working out arrangements for a song he wrote.
    Then you know its over....
     
    3-Chord-Genius and MatsEriksson like this.

  12. MatsEriksson

    MatsEriksson Tele-Meister

    135
    Aug 12, 2011
    Malmoe Sweden
    Foreigner isn't even mentioned. Beats me. No original member at all.

    Chris Squire of Yes had the rights to the name, and they are now still flogging a dead horse. Steve Howe isn't even a founding member, but Yes had ALWAYS had a revolving door with members in and out, Rick Wakeman leaving several times and rejoined.

    But you had these guys in Kiss, and Yes, yes, bassists both of them, that both Gene Simmons and Chris Squire actively searched for legal possibilities to franchise or carry on with the name only, after all of them were gone. That you could ride it as a large "musical act" and just by sorting out certain members they would perform as Kiss, and Yes respectively. All others in the bands declined to this proposal even if it meant royalties to the inheriting part, their kids, and grandkids.

    They do it some kind of way today, with the huge QUEEN tribute acts, and various "Pink Floyd" tribute bands that tours almost at as large as the original did. The only two ones who had the integrity to pull the plug when it was said and done, as far as I know, was Led Zeppelin and the Beatles. No one wanted to carry on with the any of the others out. When it comes to huge corporate famous kind of things.
     

  13. davidge1

    davidge1 Friend of Leo's

    Nov 13, 2006
    USA
    >>>A band is no longer a band when they become a money-making enterprise, capitalizing on the fame of the original band hits, and tour as a band in name only

    I think that's nonsense. Bands are meant to be money-making enterprises. A band is a business – no different in that respect than any other small business.
    A band is still a band so long as the owner of the bands name continues to perform or record using the name.

    The only people who consider band lineups to be "definitive" are the fans. The people who are actually IN the bands only wanted to find other people to work with and make music They've worked long and hard to build up equity in the band's name, and there's no reason for them not to continue to use it, no matter who else may or may not be involved.
     

  14. Frank'n'censed

    Frank'n'censed Poster Extraordinaire

    Mar 27, 2011
    Parts Unknown

  15. Fiesta Red

    Fiesta Red Tele-Afflicted

    Nov 15, 2010
    Texas
    The Fabulous Thunderbirds now only have one original member (Kim Wilson), albeit the (arguably) most important one.

    I've seen them in four or five different lineups, and have never hesitated to call them "the Fabulous Thunderbirds", even with guys who werent even born when they formed manning various instruments.

    I'd rather see them with Jimmie and Kim reunited, but I don't know if that'll ever happen...but Kim has been smart about who joins and who keeps the basic Vibe of the band alive...they still sound Thunderbird-y, no matter who plays what.

    My personal band has had many iterations...original "other" guitarist (we both played lead and rhythm) was fired due to his love affair with Jim Beam, second "other" guitarist quit because he was unrecognized as the Legend he is (just ask him, he'll tell you); bassist-second vocalist moved into "other" guitarist role and we recruited his brother-in-law to play bass; former bassist/then "other" guitarist then had a stroke, which ended his ability to play or sing...brother-in-law drifted away after that. Recruited another bassist and (for the first time) a keyboardist for a few gigs, but they had other bands and obligations (and weren't really Texas Roadhouse Music players, preferring rock and pop covers)...

    So right now, it's just me and the drummer...we record but don't perform much, if at all.

    But since we formed the band, have always been the primary songwriters and took on the lion's share of work recording and producing, I have no problem carrying on the name. But when either he or I quit (or die), that's when it's no longer the Screamin' Armadillos.
     

  16. TeleAndSG

    TeleAndSG Tele-Holic

    Age:
    48
    892
    Mar 9, 2017
    The Peach State
    For me, a band ceases to be a band as soon as at least one member has too much of a strict control on the creative output, leaving some members completely out of the picture. This is a different situation from that of a band where a few members are good at songwriting and therefore compose the bulk of the material. When you have a "Dr. No" in a band, then its not really a band, but an egotistic leader and her/his backing musicians
     

  17. musicalmartin

    musicalmartin Poster Extraordinaire

    Age:
    70
    Aug 8, 2007
    Norfolk UK
    When there is one member left .At that point they become a busker .
     

  18. tonytrout

    tonytrout Friend of Leo's

    Age:
    41
    Mar 19, 2003
    Brasstown/Murphy, NC

    Skynyrd should have never reformed, period, after RVZ was killed in the plane crash. They're absolutely nothing but a tribute band now - the late Leon Wilkeson even admitted this very thing.

    RVZ was Skynyrd - the heart & soul of the band.
     
    Uncle Bob likes this.

  19. MatsEriksson

    MatsEriksson Tele-Meister

    135
    Aug 12, 2011
    Malmoe Sweden
    Really I can't think of any other bands than Beatles, and Zep who didn't carry on without any of the key members. There's only those two bands I can think of. They didn't reunite and carried on. Zep did that thing in 2007 but it wasn't a reunion, just a gig.

    There's always a BL in any band, that is the key person.

    You know in the 50s and early 60s all "bands" where called "Freddie and the Dreamers" "Cliff Richard and the Shadows". Which meant the band and always had a NAMED frontman that was the major draw. Who was or wasn't in the backing band "Bill Haley and his Comets" the audience couldn't care less about. Not until the 60s, and the Beatles actually, there were one of the first "self contained bands" which produced and wrote all the songs themselves, and they couldn't be named "Paul McCartney, John Lennon and The Beatles". Or "Paul, John and the Beatles". Or "Mick and the Stones"...a tad trite.

    Very few bands, are real bands where all are treated equal, or gives equal lions share in royalties, or copyright things.

    THe reason many bands has a revolving door policy of members, can be too, that - like Deep Purple - they choose to make that writing deal equally. This will not be enough for someone who actually writes the majority of songs, both lyrics and. Both Sabbath, and Purple had always "Lord-Paice-Gillan-Blackmore-Glover" listed on all songs. Same as Sabbath did, but not until later it was known that bass player Butler actually wrote most of the lyrics (as well as part of the music). These kinds of deals is best left unbeknownst to us in the long run, but it can show whenever someone leaves a band, and you detect that the following album seriously lacks something.

    - - - - - - -

    For example, I clearly remember when Peter Gabriel split from Genesis. The papers wrote "their Syd Barrett" if you'd like and many dissed them as has beens and the obituary came, "they were good in their days". I am the only one on earth who actually thought that the band became much better since Pete left, and that includes his solo career. The two albums they released after that, when they were 4, where the best. Alas, it only lasted so long until they became three piece, and a arty hit-pop lightweight trio. But boy, there where people who think they weren't a band anymore. To them the old ghost of "Peter Gabriel and Genesis" band monikers still played around in their brains.
     

  20. 3-Chord-Genius

    3-Chord-Genius Friend of Leo's

    Apr 3, 2015
    Winchester, VA
    Back around 1990, Molly Hatchet had recorded an album and the only original member was the singer. But he became ill during the recording process, and was replaced by another guy who sang on half of the album. It was still sold as Molly Hatchet.
     

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