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What kind of tuners I can fit on this old tele?

Discussion in 'Tele-Technical' started by triviani, Jun 9, 2018.

  1. triviani

    triviani Tele-Meister

    351
    Mar 22, 2010
    Osaka
    Hi,

    Noob question here, need a bit of help. What tuners can I use to replace the ones on this Japanese Matsumoku tele?

    Vintage style ones? Which brand? Should I measure everything or are these pretty standard in size?

    Thanks!


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  2. RodeoTex

    RodeoTex Poster Extraordinaire

    Sep 14, 2005
    Nueces Strip
    Fender sells something very similar.
     
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  3. moosie

    moosie Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

    Age:
    61
    Jul 18, 2010
    Western Connecticut
    Actually no. The 70s style F tuners are oriented with the parallelogram angles going the other direction.

    Screen Shot 2018-06-09 at 8.23.04 PM.png
     
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  4. moosie

    moosie Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

    Age:
    61
    Jul 18, 2010
    Western Connecticut
    But they are VERY similar to these, which I found on an old Ibanez lying around my house.

    20180609_202530.jpg 20180609_202628.jpg
     
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  5. Dacious

    Dacious Poster Extraordinaire

    Mar 16, 2003
    Godzone
    Measure the shaft thickness, and distance between centres. Probably a mini tuner would be best option. Just need to ensure they'll fit with the tuner shaft thickness.
     
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  6. Vizcaster

    Vizcaster Friend of Leo's

    Sep 15, 2007
    Glen Head, NY
    The most important dimension is the size of the hole in the headstock. Remove the tuners, and the bushings, and measure the hole (best way to measure a hole is with the blunt end of a drill bit until you find the right size, but they may be metric!). You also have the issue of the spacing between holes. Then at last you need to worry about the small holes for the little screws. New tuners are unlikely to use the same holes so there will be filling and re-drilling to be done.

    So, all that said, what convinced you that the tuners need to be replaced? Most times difficulty in tuning is a matter of the nut slots needing to be carefully filed and lubricated. Perhaps disassembly and lubrication of the tuners will be enough to freshen them up without replacing them.
     
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  7. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

    Mar 17, 2003
    Lubbock, TX
    If the neck is any good, then buy a good set of machines with a high ratio. Don’t worry about the fit. If the holes need to be enlarged, so be it...and it is assured that it will be necessary, ime. The holes in the back are to be filled with dowel and sealed with a dab of lacquer....or clear nail polish. A set of Kluson replicas would work...get better ones. That might not necessitate enlarging the hole. I like Grover rotominis with a 18-1 ratio.
    This work should be done by someone with experience if modification of the hole is needed.
     
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  8. Tezuka27

    Tezuka27 Tele-Holic

    624
    Apr 11, 2011
    Eastern Iowa
    I'd put on a set of Gotoh split shaft tuners, but your mileage may vary.

    jb
     
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  9. tessting1two

    tessting1two Tele-Meister

    377
    Apr 13, 2014
    Southern California
    I'd suggest looking at Hipshot tuners with the universal mounting plate so you don't have to drill any holes. They are available with or without staggered posts in locking and non-locking versions. Just be sure to measure the diameter of the post holes (hopefully they are 25/64 or 10mm).

    https://hipshotproducts.com/collections/guitar-tuning-machines/products/guitar-tuner-upgrade-kits

    hint: find what you want on the hipshot website and then go to Reverb to see if a dealer has them in stock for less money.
     
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  10. Tonetele

    Tonetele Poster Extraordinaire

    Jun 2, 2009
    South Australia
    I'd normally recommend Gotoh but as @moosie shows those fender tuners come with bushes.
     
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  11. BryMelvin

    BryMelvin Tele-Afflicted

    Age:
    66
    Jan 4, 2014
    Arivaca AZ
    You can find replacements for these on ebay. You also can find relatively good ones from stewmac as "economy" tuners.

    People frown on trapezoid tuners but if you look close to pics on ebay you will find ones that the button screws on and have the same nylon gears as imported sealed tuners.

    Best bet is Stewmacs economy tuners or Kluson style vintage tuners which will fit with new attachment screw holes drilled.
     
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  12. triviani

    triviani Tele-Meister

    351
    Mar 22, 2010
    Osaka
    Thanks all for your help.

    Sure, I’m replacing the nut first, but I wanted to take a look at the tuners as well.

    I can only find cheap tuners with that kind of screws, I’d rather not make any new holes in the headstock. I’ll check the Hipshot ones.

    Cheers
     
  13. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

    Mar 17, 2003
    Lubbock, TX
    There is no reason to avoid putting good machines on a good neck even if it means putting new holes in that headstock. In my over 50 years of playing, Inhave never seen anyone staring at the back of a headstock to bemoan some minor changes as long as the machines keep a guitar in tune. Ommv......but this is not a visual but rather an aural endeavor and that is not a neck that will ever lose any value by putting good machines on it.
     
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  14. clefe

    clefe TDPRI Member

    20
    May 29, 2003
    france
    You find these trapezoid tuners on so many cheap vintage guitars and there are so many owners willing to replace them by something more reliable, that I'm astonished that no manufacturer markets modern tuners with the same footprint and same hole diameter as these.
     
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  15. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

    Mar 17, 2003
    Lubbock, TX
    Ime, that style of tuning machine was the worst machine Fender ever put on a guitar...up until that point. Those Fenders from the ‘70’s are now worth money, so if they still have those tuners on them I would leave them be and sell such a guitar. If I wanted to play one of those guitars with such tuners, I would change to a better functioning machine.
     
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  16. stratoman1

    stratoman1 Tele-Afflicted

    Nov 12, 2016
    Virginia Beach, Va
    Why are you wanting to replace them ? I vote that if it's not broke dont fix it
     
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  17. Vizcaster

    Vizcaster Friend of Leo's

    Sep 15, 2007
    Glen Head, NY
    There's a perception that quality tuners help a guitar stay in tune but my opinion is that's really only partly true, and indirectly at that. Tuners don't slip after a guitar is in tune, but they can be difficult to manipulate making it hard to get into tune in the first place. Nice sealed high-ratio geared tuners are a pleasure to use, but they actually aren't any more stable. If the existing tuners feel cheap and tight they're worth replacing, but keep in mind that even a set of Gotoh Kluson-style tuners can stick a bit and you need a bit of force to get the peg moving then it's smoother to operate. I try to crank downwards first to break them free then go up - even if the note is already flat before you start tuning.
     
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  18. EspyHop

    EspyHop Tele-Meister

    Age:
    44
    109
    May 28, 2018
    Dayton, OH
    Sperzel drilless tuners (10mm) might work.
     
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  19. triviani

    triviani Tele-Meister

    351
    Mar 22, 2010
    Osaka
    I’m pretty sure the nut is the cause of the guitar going quickly out of tune, it looks like it’s the original 42 yo nut! But the tuners feel a bit old too, so I thought to also change them.

    Sorry but I’m quite not convinced to make new holes on the headstock, specially when I’m going to do it myself. These Sperzel drilless tuners look promising.

    Cheers
     
  20. beagle

    beagle Tele-Afflicted

    Jul 20, 2010
    Yorkshire
    Be sure to measure the tuner spacing, some are wider than Fender spacings, meaning vintage kluson style tuners don't fit. The holes/bushings are usually vintage size 8.8mm.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2018
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