Asher Guitars WD Music Products Amplified Parts Mod Kits DIY Nordstarnd Pickups darrenriley.com
Asher Guitars WD Music Products Amplified Parts Mod Kits DIY Nordstarnd Pickups Warmoth.com
Asher Guitars WD Music Products Amplified Parts Mod Kits DIY Nordstarnd Pickups Warmoth.com

what is shredding

Discussion in 'Bad Dog Cafe' started by LeftyAl, Jan 11, 2018.

  1. Teleterr

    Teleterr Friend of Leo's

    Feb 7, 2011
    Lewes De.
    Go Bucket! Don t know if youre near Philly, but did you happen to catch him at TLA w the Sousaphone w a looper guy ?
     
  2. guitar0621

    guitar0621 Tele-Meister

    157
    May 30, 2017
    USA
    Saw a video in which Guthrie Govan called it Super Mario.
     
  3. Stratandtele

    Stratandtele Tele-Meister

    Age:
    46
    295
    Mar 31, 2016
    New Jersey
    Well said, exactly what I mean. Mixing in some shred with some soulful playing is fine with me. Slash also displays great use of shred, mixed with soulful wailing rock licks.
     
  4. Stratandtele

    Stratandtele Tele-Meister

    Age:
    46
    295
    Mar 31, 2016
    New Jersey
    Saw him at BB King's in NYC September 2016. It was inspirational, gave me motivation to practice more and brush up on some more advanced musical theory. Truly an amazing performer.
     
  5. TimTam

    TimTam Tele-Meister

    415
    Jun 4, 2010
    Melbourne
    The issue is much bigger than just personal loathing of shredders and feeling that shredding is the antithesis of musicality. It's about making it clear to aspiring young guitarists that meaningless technical virtuosity is not the pinnacle of guitar playing - they can be great musicians with limited technical skill but great musicality.

    In fact technical virtuosity and musicality are almost always mutually exclusive IMHO.

    I started guitar playing in the 1970's, pre-punk. In those days, everyone aspired to be Jimmy Page or Richie Blackmore. Many kids gave up because they had no hope of reaching such technical skill. I almost gave up. But fortunately punk came along and blew away the notion that one needed to be a great technician to make great music. The euphoria associated with that revelation was amazing. Punk was a short-lived but necessary movement, even though not all of it was good. But then post punk allowed that generation of musicians to do amazing new things, without the notion that it had to be technically complex or even highly skilled. It was the music that was important - sounds, lyrics .. the whole bundle.

    Successive generations of musicians have now fortunately realized that. But there are certain musical genres that are holdouts, and still venerate technicians with limited musicality. Shredding took off and developed to ridiculous lengths in some quarters, way beyond the virtuosos of the 1970's.

    IMHO young musicians should devote their time to developing musicality, not great technical skill. As long as they do, we will have great music to listen to.
     
    RetroTeleRod and dr_tom like this.
  6. 3fngrs

    3fngrs Friend of Leo's

    Oct 30, 2017
    Ohio
    Seriously? I do not think any musician other than a guitar player would ever make a statement like that. And mostly only a rock or blooze player. You'll certainly never hear a classical guitarist say that. Not likely a jazz cat either.

    To be clear, I have no level of virtuosity but I admire those who do. I could be far more musical if I had a greater level of technical ability.
     
    awasson and LowThudd like this.
  7. Ira7

    Ira7 Poster Extraordinaire

    Age:
    62
    Jan 8, 2008
    Coral Springs, FL
    This is where I admit that I've always lived with a different understanding of the term.

    To me, the basis of "shredding" is that you're shredding tone. So hi gain, fuzz, etc., and playing fast, shreds the distinction between notes. Easier to fake your speed.

    The link I replied to, that's not shredding to me. That's great playing.

    Hey, in my original post, I said I might be wrong!
     
    LowThudd likes this.
  8. LowThudd

    LowThudd Friend of Leo's

    Feb 11, 2014
    Sherman Oaks, Ca
    I think of shredding, as was mentioned earlier, as in the origin of the term from surfing lingo. Shredding waves means tearing up waves on a shortboard. Lot's of skillful tricks. Longboarders had tricks too, and even had some disdain for shortboard surfing shredders. aused the term shredding also at one point. But "Thrashing" became quickly more common.

    To me, tearing up the fretboard with movement/tricks is shredding. The derogatory understanding of the term, is somewhat of a misnomer from your description. Just MO.
     
  9. TimTam

    TimTam Tele-Meister

    415
    Jun 4, 2010
    Melbourne
    Yes seriously. IMHO technical complexity / virtuosity almost always makes for uninteresting music. Others may disagree.

    Music is a unique phenomenon, but the complexity issue is similar in other artforms. In painting for example, where it is not all about being technically brilliant / photo-realistic. There is skill in that, but it doesn't necessarily make good art. I much prefer Jackson Pollock or Rothko or Kandinsky to any photo-realistic artist. And in fact photo-realistic artists are not that uncommon; artists like Pollock are extremely rare.

    We're not talking surgery here ... where there is an absolute need for technical virtuosity. But there is nothing about music that requires it.

    Virtuosity is not end end in itself. In many other domains it is even more meaningless than in music. The world yo-yo champion has great virtuosity, but yo-yo virtuosity is an almost pointless skill.

    If virtuosity was the height of musicality, we'd all be listening only to classical and certain jazz and metal genres, ie where one most commonly finds great virtuosity. And of course as you point out none of those musicians would ever say that virtuosity was not important - it obviously is to them, and their relatively small audiences (compared to other musical genres).

    Punk was really important to me. Because I realized that prior to punk we had been taught a notion of what good music was which was not true, for me or many other people. That led to a tremendous musical freedom and innovation for many people in the years and now decades that followed. But I also realize that a lot of people weren't around then, or didn't experience it that way.
     
  10. Ira7

    Ira7 Poster Extraordinaire

    Age:
    62
    Jan 8, 2008
    Coral Springs, FL
    One of the best descriptions of great playing went something like this, regardless of the instrument:

    It's the silence and anticipation just prior to the note which is more important than the note itself.
     
  11. 3fngrs

    3fngrs Friend of Leo's

    Oct 30, 2017
    Ohio
    To each his own.

    Besides, you're almost certainly a better musician than I am. :D
     
  12. Tonetele

    Tonetele Poster Extraordinaire

    Jun 2, 2009
    South Australia
    Admittedly shredding is a skilful playing technique. Lots of scales in differing modes and LOTS of very fast hemi-demi-semi- quavers ( 64 notes to a four beat / four crochet bar).
    Players like Van Halen, Steve Vai and Yngwie Malsteem are exponents of this style 9 and many others).

    However I find it non-melodic and boring. That's just one man's opinion . I prefer the solo of Steely Dan's "Reelin' in the Years" and have since the 70s. So too the solo to Don Henley's " Boys of Summer" where the solo , feature in real musical terms, FITS the music and is not just very fast meandering across the fingerboard. Like I said that is just one person's opinion. I find Steve Vai quite boring. I cannot listen to shredding for more than a few bars.
     
  13. LowThudd

    LowThudd Friend of Leo's

    Feb 11, 2014
    Sherman Oaks, Ca
    I like Steve Vai's playing, but I agree. I just can't get into it. It is fun to watch him play sometimes. He makes it look so easy. It's not.

    Steely Dan's guitar tracks are always great. Not sure who played on Reelin' in the years. but I agree that is a great melody.
     
  14. kunos

    kunos TDPRI Member

    24
    Feb 15, 2011
    italy/it
    "Shredding" is the word used by guitarists who can't play to describe music played by those who can.
    :)
     
    jman72 and awasson like this.
  15. TeleRooo

    TeleRooo TDPRI Member

    87
    Apr 27, 2015
    Tiger Mt., WA.
    a little Rick Graham. This fella knows how to shred......


     
    3fngrs likes this.
  16. TimTam

    TimTam Tele-Meister

    415
    Jun 4, 2010
    Melbourne
    Played by renowned mostly-studio player Elliott Randall. Supposedly Jimmy Page's favourite all-time guitar solo. The antithesis of shredding. Randall now lives in the UK and sometimes still gigs (missing the opening of the first solo here) ...


    BTW I recently heard Mark Knopfler's playing on Sultans of Swing described as 'tasteful shredding'. I get what the author was trying to say, but that's not shredding; it is tasteful. But 'tasteful shredding' is almost an insult to Knopfler IMHO. ;)
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2018
    LowThudd likes this.
  17. dogmeat

    dogmeat Tele-Holic

    Age:
    68
    653
    Oct 12, 2017
    Alaska
    only time I shred is making cole slaw
     
  18. Area51

    Area51 Tele-Meister

    Age:
    54
    440
    Nov 4, 2016
    New Mexico
    Based on some recent comments, what about music out there that is plain out played fast, but may not seem so? I've picked up my guitar to learn songs and then ended up being floored how fast the song itself is played! Let alone a solo being played over it... Is the whole band not shredding? I see this often in Jazz where the whole band is made up of monster musicians/players and they're doing this smiling and talking.

    It also seems that unlike many here, I find guitar aerobics (e.g. Shredding) to be just that regardless of whether it's a genre a like or not.
     
    awasson and LowThudd like this.
  19. awasson

    awasson Friend of Leo's Gold Supporter

    Age:
    54
    Nov 18, 2010
    Vancouver
    This is such a ridiculous thread. Guitar enthusiasts hating on guitarists who happen to be at a very high level of technical proficiency. You can still appreciate the level of skill these players have without all the passive aggression, even if you’re not a fan of the genre. I’m not a shredder but I can certainly appreciate the skill and dedication it takes to get to that place.

    That video a few pages back of Tina S. Playing Beethoven is something to behold. She’s incredibly talented. I don’t know if I’ll ever play Beethoven on my guitar but I watch her videos from time to time, just to watch her picking hand and pick up clues on how to improve my playing. Steve Vai and Guthrie Goyan have such long hands it’s bizarre how easy they make it look. I consider Steve Howe a shredder too; man he can play some long, fast, complicated passages. Same with Trevor Rabin, Alex Lifeson and anyone who can play complex musical passage longer than a typical snappy pentatonic riff. I’m not a fan of country music but again, some of those guys are shredding country and I can appreciate it.

    I used to think technical players (shredders) lacked the kind of feel I was putting into my playing but then I realized I was wrong, they’re really just way better guitarists than me.
     
    LowThudd, jman72, Sounds Good and 3 others like this.
IMPORTANT: Treat everyone here with respect, no matter how difficult!
No sex, drug, political, religion or hate discussion permitted here.