Asher Guitars WD Music Products Amplified Parts Mod Kits DIY Nordstarnd Pickups darrenriley.com
Asher Guitars WD Music Products Amplified Parts Mod Kits DIY Nordstarnd Pickups Warmoth.com
Asher Guitars WD Music Products Amplified Parts Mod Kits DIY Nordstarnd Pickups Warmoth.com

Webcor Reel to Reel conversion thread

Discussion in 'Shock Brother's DIY Amps' started by ArcticWhite, May 17, 2018.

  1. Platefire

    Platefire Friend of Leo's

    Age:
    70
    Nov 3, 2003
    North Louisiana around Many
    My Grandpa Had a Wilcox Gay Recordio from about 1947 until he died in 1971. He was also a Musician/Singer and would record himself, wife and friends in his living room. That's where the Recordio resided all of my young life when we would go there on vacation. I wished I would have inherited the Recordio when he passed away but I'm not sure what happened to it. I did inherit the recordings/records he made on it plus his fiddle and acoustic guitar. In fact I took some of his songs, recorded them on a multi-track recorder and added bass, drums and keyboard. So I will share one of his recordio recordings that I added my tracks to as per sound cloud link:



    I'm also a tube amp converter and have done several Reel to Reel conversions. Don't want to mess up the flow of the existing thread by crashing it and displaying all my stuff too, but if it's ok I will. I was just kind of amazed about the conversion of the Wilcox Gay Recordio remembering the history with my Grandpa. I want to read more details of this thread when I get a chance--very interesting. Platefire
     
    naneek, drlucky and ArcticWhite like this.

  2. ArcticWhite

    ArcticWhite Tele-Meister

    283
    Apr 14, 2009
    Portland Oregon
    Please post anything you like!. I've got several projects going at once and this thread has plenty room. Might be a while before I get to the conversion.
     

  3. Platefire

    Platefire Friend of Leo's

    Age:
    70
    Nov 3, 2003
    North Louisiana around Many
    OK, thanks! This is my Webcor 210-1B conversion. I took a little different approach than most in that I utilized the existing case as a cab. I like the look of the old stuff so the project was great fun figuring out how to make it all work together. I got it for $20 at a Flea Market that looked like this in original condition:
    Webcor R to R Original 1.png
    The original circuit looked like this:
    Webcor R to R Original Circuit.png
    I ripped out everything related to tape recorder until only the audio amp remained:
    Webcor R to R with Tape Recorder Removed leaving Audio Amp.png
    I finally decided based on the tube configuration to convert it to a Princeton 5C2 using existing transformers, tube sockets, heater wiring, using exisitng fuse holder, added on/off switch, Standby switch, tone stack/volume and tested it through original speaker. Used existing Rectifier, 6SC7 Preamp and 6V6 power tube
    Webcor R to R in early Modifications and Testing.png
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2018
    Nickfl likes this.

  4. Platefire

    Platefire Friend of Leo's

    Age:
    70
    Nov 3, 2003
    North Louisiana around Many
    OK, Here is the finish conversion. I kind of resembles an old late 40's or early 50's amp which was my intent. Kind of a rugged appearance but worked good. My only regret is I sold it on ebay:>(
    Used front of case as Speaker Baffle
    Webcor R to R Conversion Front View.png
    Added Oxblood Grill Cloth and new 10" Speaker
    Webcore R to R Housing and Circuit Fully Converted.png
    Had to cut out a slot on the top to create control Panel and a Pilot Light Panel
    Webcor R To R Fully Converted Top View Controls.png
    Use some of the existing hardware for cord retainer
    Webcor R to R Conversion Rear View.png

    Here is a Sound Cloud Link to an Instrumental I recorded using this amp. No effects except
    a delay.
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2018

  5. Nickfl

    Nickfl Tele-Afflicted

    May 24, 2016
    Florida
    That's a nice conversion! I actually did a very, very similar conversion with an identical webcor rtr a couple of months ago, documented here. I also turned mine into something based on an octal preamp princeton and even had the same idea of turning the front panel of the case into a speaker baffle... definitely some "great minds think alike" happening! ;)

    I like the use on the cleats from inside the lid on the back for power cord storage, I might have to steal that idea for mine, I'm pretty sure I've still got the leftover parts in a box somewhere.
     

  6. magic smoke

    magic smoke Tele-Meister Silver Supporter

    227
    May 28, 2017
    Quantum Entanglement
    Wow! Mr. Fire, Those pics look Polaroid....?! When did you build it? I’m so happy to have found a forum to connect with diy amp builders This site truly is THE best place in the internet.
     

  7. Platefire

    Platefire Friend of Leo's

    Age:
    70
    Nov 3, 2003
    North Louisiana around Many
    Wow Nickfl----I'm totally blown away. Great Job! Also that appears to be the exact same model as mine. I would say "Hands Down" you did a much neater detailed job on yours. I would of never thought that someone else had almost the identical idea on the same R to R. Like you say---Great Minds Think Alike. Really the way I think and I think you do to----I like to utilize as much as possible of the existing piece especially if is very vintage. Let the Vintage Glow!!! For an example, here is a Revere R to R I re-used the recorder housing to make a head. Platefire
    DSC03519.JPG

    DSC03513.JPG
    DSC03515.JPG
    Chicken Head Knob is master Volume, Switch is Hot Switch(Extra 12AX7 Gain Stage)
    DSC00474.JPG
    Revere 5DC3.jpg
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: May 31, 2018
    naneek, Nickfl and SSL9000J like this.

  8. Platefire

    Platefire Friend of Leo's

    Age:
    70
    Nov 3, 2003
    North Louisiana around Many
    Magic Smoke---I think is was built in 2001 to 2002. I'm attaching the schematic and that's the date it has on it. I love Re-purposing these old amps to give them new life as a guitar amp. In the early part of 2000-2005 I was constantly searching for old amps and bought them from flea markets, pawn shops, off e-bay and some was given to me. I even got into amp repair when I retired in 2010 but quit doing that last year. I've really slowed down regarding the hunt for old amps. I still got in the neighborhood of 15-20 and running out of room to store them.

    Last thing I bought is an old Kalart Victor Projector that has a good audio amp in it. Very well made!!! Never heard of that brand before. I haven't really done any mods to it because it sounds really good
    just plugging into Phono input and the existing tone stack does a good job for guitar. Think it's Baxandall active tone stack. it's also got rather rate 6973 power tubes--push/pull. I had planned some mods to it but just never have done them. I've had this amp a couple of years.

    Here is a YouTube of me playing through the Kalart. Think I used a little delay and some OD close to the end. Platefire


    Webcor R to R Conversion Schematic.png
    The Kalart
    Kalart Victor with 1-10 Cab.jpg
    IMG_20160908_105706.jpg
    IMG_20160905_185411.jpg
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2018

  9. bigguy12321

    bigguy12321 Tele-Meister

    307
    Jul 13, 2012
    Traverse City Mi.
    @Platefire On the schematic you posted I see you used the 6X6GT rectifier tube. Data shows 70ma max. I see you made this amp about 20 years ago so I guess there hasn't been any issue with PT heating up or rectifier burning out?

    I've got a 5F11 build starting soon and my power trans doesn't have a 5V tap. I have several 6X5GT's. I was thinking about getting 6AX5GT's but if you haven't seen any down side maybe I'll try with the one I have and see what happens.

    Ideas? Thoughts?

    Thank you.

    a
     

  10. ArcticWhite

    ArcticWhite Tele-Meister

    283
    Apr 14, 2009
    Portland Oregon
    I'm digging this thread. My project has stalled for now, so I'm happy to see it rolling on as a Webcor/Reel conversion idea exchange!
     

  11. Platefire

    Platefire Friend of Leo's

    Age:
    70
    Nov 3, 2003
    North Louisiana around Many
    bigguy12321

    That rectifier came in the Webcor 210-1B. I also used the existing Webcor power transformer and output transformer, so I figured it would be ok since the audio amp used all the high voltage DCV and
    the old tape recorder part that I removed was mostly powered by ACV seperate from the rectifier. No problems, the amp worked great. Platefire
     

  12. David Barnett

    David Barnett Poster Extraordinaire

    Those little golden birdies look at them

    And the mystic Egypt tossle dangling down
    Old sleeper-man shish, don’t wake him
    Up one hand broom star was an obi-man
    revered throughout the bone-knob land
    His magic black purse slit creeped open,
    Let go flocks of them

    Shish sookie singabus
    Snored like a red merry-go-round horse
    And an acid gold bar swirled up and down,
    Up and down, in back of the singabus
    And the panataloon duck white goose neck quacked
    webcor, webcor
     

  13. Snfoilhat

    Snfoilhat Tele-Holic

    Age:
    37
    621
    Apr 8, 2016
    Oakland, CA
    Y'all put my work to shame but I am a member of the Webcor 210 Electronic Memory conversion club. I never got a really pleasing sound from this, and have since parted it out to reuse the transformers and tubes in other projects. Cheers and looking forward to yours, ArcticWhite!
     

    Attached Files:

    Jake Nelson and ArcticWhite like this.

  14. bigguy12321

    bigguy12321 Tele-Meister

    307
    Jul 13, 2012
    Traverse City Mi.
    Thank you.

    Ima givita shot!

    a
     

  15. Platefire

    Platefire Friend of Leo's

    Age:
    70
    Nov 3, 2003
    North Louisiana around Many
    Didn't mean to stiffle this tread by my much posting. Please carry on! Platefire
     

  16. bigguy12321

    bigguy12321 Tele-Meister

    307
    Jul 13, 2012
    Traverse City Mi.
    @ArcticWhite To answer your first question in the post about what to build from the Wilcox Gay, why not a 5F11 Vibrolux. You've got everything you need right there.

    a
     
    ArcticWhite likes this.

  17. Platefire

    Platefire Friend of Leo's

    Age:
    70
    Nov 3, 2003
    North Louisiana around Many
    I was looking at previous post on this thread trying to see the tube configuration of the Wilcox Gay---didn't see it? What is the tube configuration on that one. Platefire
     

  18. bigguy12321

    bigguy12321 Tele-Meister

    307
    Jul 13, 2012
    Traverse City Mi.
    @Platefire In the above post I was referring to the first post on this thread where @ArcticWhite listed the tubes on the Webcor 2612 (I believe) as 2-12ax7's and 2-6V6's. I am not sure which Wilcox Gay Recordio model you have but I found the model 9G10 has 12AT7 6BA6 6AU6 6AL5 6AT6 6AQ5 6X5GT

    and the model 6B30 has : 6A8GT 6SK7GT 6SQ7GT 6SN7GT 6E5 6V6GT 6SJ7GT 5Y3GT

    These were grabbed from Radiomuseum.org.

    Also @Platefire When I was asking about the rectifier tube it was in reference to your 5C3/5D3 conversion from that Revere. I'm gonna try it anyway. The 6X5 is only supposed to handle 70ma at 315 volts but there have been several PP6v6 schematics that I've found that used it and they were at lower voltages.

    It can only smoke so long right?

    Hope this helps.

    a
     

  19. Platefire

    Platefire Friend of Leo's

    Age:
    70
    Nov 3, 2003
    North Louisiana around Many
    Thanks bigguy12321
    The one my Grandpa had was the Model 6B30 you have the tube listed above. This is what it looked like----It was a fixture in his living room all the years I remember going to his house Recordio 6B30.jpg
    On the Revere 5C3/5D3 I converted it from a Single ended audio amp to a push-pull by using A output Transformer I had from a Dean Markey Spectra Amp. I think I converted the Electric eye socket into another 6V6GT socket by re-wiring it. The input part of the circuit was 5D3 with a 12AX7 preamp/tone-stack and the phase inverter was the earlier 5C3 with the 6SC7 Octal Metal Tube. The circuit network behind the 6SC7 PI is what you they call a "Self Balancing" phase inverter
    which I think keeps both sides of the push/pull 6V6's power section output more even. This was suppose to cut down on distortion I think. It must work pretty good because normally the amp stays clean almost all the way to its loudest volume. That's why I added a Master Volume and a hot switch to add in extra gain. It's OK but I personally think the famous 5E3 sounds the best. I was experimenting on the 5C3/5D3. The 5E3 is hard to beat!!!
    003 (2).jpg
    037.jpg
    033.jpg
     
    Jake Nelson likes this.

  20. wanderin kind

    wanderin kind Tele-Meister

    Age:
    63
    212
    Apr 24, 2018
    Olympia WA
    opened one of those up and was shocked to find a pair of 1950's RCA blackplate 6V6GT tubes and Mullard 12AX7a's , due to the lack of take-up reels and 1/4" tape, we did not feel bad putting those tubes in the Princeton Reverb instead of rebuilding the tape recorder which would have been a hassle for sure,
     

IMPORTANT: Treat everyone here with respect, no matter how difficult!
No sex, drug, political, religion or hate discussion permitted here.