Asher Guitars WD Music Products Amplified Parts Mod Kits DIY Nordstarnd Pickups Warmoth.com
Asher Guitars WD Music Products Amplified Parts Mod Kits DIY Nordstarnd Pickups Warmoth.com
Asher Guitars WD Music Products Amplified Parts Mod Kits DIY Nordstarnd Pickups Warmoth.com

volume pedal.. do i want 250k or 25k ?

Discussion in 'The Stomp Box' started by popthree, Oct 15, 2011.

  1. popthree

    popthree Poster Extraordinaire

    i intend to purchase a volume pedal.. i plan to put it after my compressor and dirt pedals. the compressor will always be on.. knowing that.. do i want a 25k ?

    thanks
     

  2. Teleworshipkid

    Teleworshipkid Friend of Leo's

    Age:
    22
    Mar 20, 2011
    Newport Beach, CA
    Only use a 25k if you have active pickups.
     

  3. popthree

    popthree Poster Extraordinaire

    i was thinking the comp being on all the time.. and the OD's being on sometimes would introduce a load like active pickups....
     

  4. Teleworshipkid

    Teleworshipkid Friend of Leo's

    Age:
    22
    Mar 20, 2011
    Newport Beach, CA
    Eh... Unless you have everything on all the time, then you probably shouldn't have to worry about that...
     

  5. popthree

    popthree Poster Extraordinaire

    well like i said in my original post, i'm putting the volume pedal 'after' a compressor that will be engaged full time.
     

  6. 1300 E Valencia

    1300 E Valencia Tele-Afflicted

    Dec 13, 2010
    Fullerton CA
    Between the guitar and the amp's input, use the high impedance model (250K). No, it doesn't matter how many or what kind of pedals are also in the chain.
    The 25K models are for use in an effects loop.
    Hope this helps :D
     

  7. 1300 E Valencia

    1300 E Valencia Tele-Afflicted

    Dec 13, 2010
    Fullerton CA
    Sorry, you can have a zillion pedals engaged "all the time", it still doesn't make your guitar "active".
    Active pickups output a low impedance signal.
    Effects loops are low impedance.
    99.999% of everything else is high impedance.
     

  8. Tele-phone man

    Tele-phone man Tele-Afflicted

    Sep 11, 2006
    Asheville, NC
    You can do it. I would recommend neither the 250k nor the 25k. Rather, I prefer a good active VP, which can usually be used in every setting. They tend to have higher input impedance than the 250k passive volume pedals, and their buffered, low-Z output can drive any impedance input.
     

  9. RomanS

    RomanS Poster Extraordinaire

    Jun 21, 2006
    Vienna, Austria
    Nope.
    Most effects pedals (with very few exceptions) have low impedance outputs - so, if you run an effects pedal in front of your vol. pedal, and leave it on at all times (with buffered/non-true-bypass = buffered pedals - eg. a Boss TU2 - even when turned off!), you can safely use a low impedance volume pedal.
    Boss specifically recommends low-Z vol. pedals for use after other effects pedals:
    http://www.roland.com/products/en/_support/faq.cfm?iCncd=269&FAQ=EN31-07729&dsp=1&ln=en

    That said, I personally prefer an active vol. pedal (as long as it is NOT a Morley!), as you don't have to worry about where to place it.

    BTW, what compressor are you using? Once we've got the model, we could try to find out its output impedance specs...
    To mention the two most popular models' output impedances:
    Boss CS-3 - 1k
    MXR Dynacomp - 10k
    ...both have low impedance outputs!
     

  10. popthree

    popthree Poster Extraordinaire

    thanks Romans.. i'm using a Marshall ED-1

    i was wanting to keep my cash outlay on the low side which i why i'm considering a passive volume pedal.. looking at those ernie ball jr.s since they can be had for $80 new and less for used.
     

  11. RomanS

    RomanS Poster Extraordinaire

    Jun 21, 2006
    Vienna, Austria
    Output impedance less than 1kOhms - so it's low impedance:

    http://marshallamps.com/product.asp?productCode=Compressor&pageType=SPECS

    Personally, I haven't used Ernie Ball vol. pedals (though it's the choice of a lot of pro players - should work fine!) - for passive vol. pedals my favorite is the Boss FV-500 (comes in low and high impedance versions).
     

  12. popthree

    popthree Poster Extraordinaire

    Romans.. Thanks !
     

  13. fly135

    fly135 Tele-Holic

    597
    Dec 19, 2007
    Orlando
    This is the correct answer. The output impedance of the compressor does allow you to put a low impedance pedal after it, but I wouldn't. If you change your mind then you may not be able to move it where you want in your chain. It's the input impedance of the device following the volume pedal that dictates if you need a low impedance volume pedal.
     

  14. popthree

    popthree Poster Extraordinaire

    its not just the compressor that will be 'before' the volume pedal. all my dirt will go before it as well.

    i can't ever see putting a volume pedal before my dirt boxes...

    i have read that using a 250k vol pedal 'after' comp and dirt will cause loss of highs... which is why i am thinking i need the 25k... just wanting to make sure i'm thinking correctly.
     

  15. fatsound77

    fatsound77 TDPRI Member

    32
    May 9, 2011
    usa
    SO many wrong answers and very few right ones. If you are for sure positive your compressor will stay on all the time then YES 25K. Contrary to some of the above statements, if you are feeding it a compressors low impedance buffered out then that is an active signal. BUT if you go directly from passive pups to 25K VP then you will have awful loading issues sucking away all your signal. Using a 250K after a buffered/low impedance/active signal will work, but the incorrect pairing of impedances will mess with the taper/swell rate making for a not so good nor smooth swell.


    This is absolutely incorrect. It's the source signal that dictates the use of a 25K or 250K. In his case the source is not technically the passive pickups. It's the compressors output only because he's going to keep it on 100% of the time.
     

  16. popthree

    popthree Poster Extraordinaire

    thanks fatsound77.... what you and Romans have said reinforces some of the information i have read elsewhere...and what my gut is telling me... there seems to be such confusion regarding this topic ! i know i want the comp on all the time... and i want to hit my dirt with full out guitar volume so the gain is unaffected by the volume changes..

    my aim is to be able to create long dramatic swells for ambient looping type stuff. i wish i had unlimited funds to buy a really nice active volume pedal but i'm always pinching pennies as i have mouths to feed !

    thanks again !
     

  17. fatsound77

    fatsound77 TDPRI Member

    32
    May 9, 2011
    usa
    Yeah. I used to be anal about no active volume pedals, but my bud Justin at Thru-Tone got me hooked on his mod he does to the Ernie Ball VP's. Check him out at http://www.thru-tone.com, I wrote a quick review on here to help try and spread the good word. I won't even play without the modded VP on my board now. Definitely a worthy investment for me and just completely eliminated my headaches with these topics.
     

  18. fly135

    fly135 Tele-Holic

    597
    Dec 19, 2007
    Orlando
    Sorry but you are a bit off base on your assessment of my post. Well a lot if you give "absolutely" the weight it deserves.

    First of all if you have a passive pickup then there is no way the device following it will be a low impedance input. If that is the case then a brain dead monkey designed your board. I'm not suggesting you are a brain dead monkey or your board is ill-designed. So we can assume as an axiom that you will never have a low impedance input after a passive pup.

    Knowing what I stated above, and knowing that anything that goes before the amp will have high impedance inputs, we can then move to other considerations. The first consideration is that it is never required to have a 25K pedal before an amp. In fact having a low impedance input following a low impedance output is not a requirement. In theory it does reduce noise, but your pedal chain is loaded with high impedance inputs so this is not a consideration. Therefore you can now see that having active pups is irrelevant in the decision process.

    What is relevant is the input impedance of the device following the volume pedal. And what we find is that the 250K pedal is more versatile. You can *always* put a 250K in front of the amp. You cannot always put a 25K pedal in front. You can always put a 250K pedal in a low impedance loop and the worst you will suffer is a sweep non-linearity. That sweep non-linearity is the result of the impedance following the volume pedal and has nothing to do with the device feeding it. If you put a 250K into a 10K ohm input impedance the sweep kills the signal too fast, but it's usable.

    OTOH if you put a 25K pedal anywhere that has a high impedance driver you will suffer from tone suck. Which is worse... tone suck or sweep issues? Combine that with the fact that most places to insert a pedal is a high impedance circuit (even many amp loops) and you can see the 250K is more versatile and the easiest criteria for choosing is the input impedance of the device following the pedal.
     

  19. popthree

    popthree Poster Extraordinaire

    hey fly135, i appreciate your input. it sounds to me like you are saying if i want the most versatile 'passive' volume pedal, i should get one with a 250k pot.

    however, in my case, i will not be changing my mind about where the pedal goes in the chain. it will be after the dirt which is after the comp that is always engaged.

    considering that criteria only, which would you use, the 25k or the 250k, and why ?

    is Boss wrong ?
     

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