Asher Guitars WD Music Products Amplified Parts Mod Kits DIY Nordstarnd Pickups
Asher Guitars WD Music Products Amplified Parts Mod Kits DIY Nordstarnd Pickups
Asher Guitars WD Music Products Amplified Parts Mod Kits DIY Nordstarnd Pickups

Vintique: Excitement, Anger and Astonishment!! The FIVE YEAR Telecaster...

Discussion in 'Telecaster Discussion Forum' started by MandyMarie, Jan 5, 2007.

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  1. Ronkirn

    Ronkirn Doctor of Teleocity Vendor Member

    May 1, 2003
    Jacksonville, FL
    Perhaps I have been misunderstood; it’s not my intention to defend anyone. It’s just that I have been on the receiving end of equally odious vitriol. Thus I tend to view such in a more objective manner.

    Jay apparently has left others disappointed with his. . . ummm . . . unique brand of attention, or lack thereof. From my point of view, that’s unforgivable, but I do not know the other side of the story in any of those circumstance. And due to that intellectual void, I cannot join the party in “Piling on”. Boy, do some like to pile it on….and I have seen that also with regards to some comments about me by people that do not know me, and have never contacted me, yet they have a very comprehensive opinion of me based on what one person, equally unknown, has said.

    Honey goes a lot further than hate, if you have a problem with me, I recommend a courteous professional contact, you will be surprised by my reply, but get snippy and I’ll give you the most effective “slap” I can, I’ll completely ignore ya. Anyone that initiates a contact with a flame thrower deserves no less.

    After 5 years, its obvious there is not going to be a resolution, at least not one Danny, et al, would like to see. That’s sad because Jay’s action indirectly and adversely impacts all the boutique operations with an aura of negativity. Not to mention Danny’s loss.

    As I mentioned, I too have been on the receiving end. That’s not at all pleasant, particularly when every attempt has been made to make the plaintiff happy. Some simply will not be made happy, but will feign contentment, after considerable recompense, only to strike out at a latter date, stating there was NEVER any attempt to correct the situation. Like I said, weird stuff happens. Note the “Heather” review on Harmony Central. I have no idea who that coward is. Use a Squire body, indeed. Hehehehe that’s a cute comment.

    One of the statistics ya learn in Marketing is, if you make someone happy, they will share the experience with 3 other potential customers, but piss ‘em off and they will share that with 11 (the numbers vary depending on who’s research you are considering). Couple that with the natural tendency of the aggrieved, speaking generically and not about you Danny, to embellish, or edit the record, and perhaps you can understand where I’m coming from.

    Sh** happens. It comes with the territory of life on earth. To avoid it, ya gotta die. Personally, I think I’ll put up with the cack, cause the good times make it easy to forget the stink.

    I recall a Psyche Professor once saying, “You can spend your life worrying about the past, over which you now have no control, or look to the future, over which you have a direct impact.” Make that impact positive.

    If Jay’s morphed into a jerk, man, that’s sad, avoid jerks at all costs.

    Ron Kirn

  2. TelZilla

    TelZilla Friend of Leo's

    Jan 21, 2007
    Cleveburg, USA
    Damn, that's a pretty good post.

  3. Skully

    Skully Doctor of Teleocity

    Jun 12, 2003
    Glamorous NoHo
    Well, I hope your "slap" doesn't include not fulfilling your contractual obligations in a timely manner, because a strike like that would deservedly put you on the losing end of a lawsuit.

    It's clear people have tried to contact Jay courteously and professionally on numerous occasions, and he's failed to respond properly at virtually every juncture. IMHO, he deserves all the flames he's getting, and then some.

    From what I've seen, as a rule, people on this board cut boutique builders wa-ay too much slack in their eager quest for guitar unobtanium.

  4. chet

    chet Banned

    Aug 30, 2004
    The Jersey Shore
    RonKirn posted: "One of the “things”, and I don’t recall when I learned it, is, there are always 2 sides to every story, thus I tend to use basic rules of law when listening to someone’s share his side. I cannot help but think, Hummm what is NOT being said…. What is the other side?"

    The problem here is that the customer couldn't get him to answer e-mails or phone calls for years. How would you expect him to post on an open guitar forum if he won't even communicate with people he took money from?

  5. tiktok

    tiktok Poster Extraordinaire

    Jan 11, 2005
    The baffling thing about the Jay saga is that it sounds like he's doing regular business again these days. I have known people who hit a dark spot in their lives at some point--depression, drugs, relationship gone really bad, etc., and after they recover from the immediate aspects of their dilemma they sort of boxed up everything from that period in their mind and were very reluctant to deal with it. That's really the only thing I can think of to explain what I've read about regarding this and several other Vintique deals gone bad.

  6. Freddy Fender

    Freddy Fender Tele-Meister

    Oct 6, 2004
    Ontario, Canada
    What was the problem with Joe Barden anyway? What was the reason he stopped making pickups for a while?

  7. Ronkirn

    Ronkirn Doctor of Teleocity Vendor Member

    May 1, 2003
    Jacksonville, FL

    I just received a communiqué (that's a 50 cent word for email) from a heavyweight in the world of guitardom who is in NYC and in close proximity to Jay, and now a FORMER customer.

    He has confirmed Jay’s problematic response to orders placed and money sent buy pro guitarists of whom you would say, Well daymn, if he's screwin' them. . . ", and this is from within the world of guys we’d like to play like and/or with or more important, have their bank balance.

    Danny, I’m in your corner.

    Ron Kirn

  8. Markl8

    Markl8 Tele-Meister

    Nov 3, 2006
    Tell it man ,Tell it!!! These posts are starting to sound like some sick arsed Dr. Phill show! Now matter how you cut it this guy has EIGHTEEN HUNDRED DOLLARS of Danny's money for what FIVE YEARS! He has had every chance to square it away. I have more respect for the thief that puts a gun in your face and demands the money, this guy is a punk and someday he WILL do this to the wrong guy. REMOVED BY WEBMASTER
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2007

  9. Markl8

    Markl8 Tele-Meister

    Nov 3, 2006
    No offense Ron but you like to dance and spin with your words, but hey thats OK! So translating your flowery post. You have confirmed Jay is ripping off the rich and famous players. It sounds like now that he ripped the "rich and famous" that makes it a bad thing. Almost like Dannys chopped liver or something. Im sure you probably didnt mean it that way but thats how it comes across. Either way glad you finally "see the light" a lot of us dont need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows. This was theft plain and simple.
    Admiral Akbar likes this.

  10. gtech

    gtech Friend of Leo's

    Jan 4, 2007
    Quebec, Canada
    It's funny how some things come back in your head after 30 years...

    Ths thread reminds me I once sold an amp and guitar to a guy I knew, but no more, he wasn't a friend. He told me he would pay me half at the sale, half later. No problem I said. We went to school together, so...

    After many months, he still didn't send me the money he was still owning me. So I called him from a friend's house to ask him about the money he told me many times he would send me, and told him I would take the gutar or the amp back if he could not pay me. He said he sold the guitar and the amp went in fire in a show (tube amps...). Yeah yeah... But he had an acoustic guitar that he would sell and then he would send me the money. I said ok. My friend biker, who had more experience with this kind of guy, told me to call him back and tell him WE would come and get that acoustic guitar... That's what we did, both on my bike. :twisted:

    The end of the story is that when I tried to sell the acoustic guitar to get my money back, I learned that it was worth half the price that guy told me it was worth... “Once a liar, always a liar”

    Oh, and I learned a few years later that his father was caught in a fraud. Maybe he learned from his father...

    Now about Vintique:

    What can I say... I just hope for the best.


  11. Ronkirn

    Ronkirn Doctor of Teleocity Vendor Member

    May 1, 2003
    Jacksonville, FL
    See, this it the kind of stuff (cack for Latin students) I mean. How some can take whatcha say and derive a different meaning from it.

    No….. I did not mean to infer Danny’s chopped liver. What I did was to explore external sources to find out what other’s that I DO know are experiencing. I don’t know Danny but the information I received supports a high probability of Danny’s post being factual. Unless such veracity is examined externally, it should only be considered conjecture. I am sad to report Danny’s experience, is consistent with the experiences some of my prior clients have had with Vintique, and that has been confirmed.

    As I inferred previously, I do not simply take somebody’s post as gospel. (Unless they’re raving about my guitars <grin>). Since I joined this fracas, I did due diligence. I checked with someone I KNOW has done a lot of business with Jay, to find out what’s up. He confirmed the jist of this post, and I let y’all know. I don’t see how that’s a bad thing.

    I am still in Danny’s corner, y’all gonna flame me for that too?

    Now, ifin y’all aint uh likin’ the way I’m uh speekin’ wiff all them 50 cent werds and talk ‘n such… I can assure ya, I can drool Red Man with the best of ‘em.

    Ron Kirn

  12. 0le FUZZY

    0le FUZZY Former Member

    ...HEE! HEE! Make mine Levi Garrett.

    ...Yew really dew git it Ron. How kool iss at?

    0le FUZZY

  13. Spudrok

    Spudrok Tele-Meister

    Mar 17, 2003
    Ron, I never misunderstood what you meant.

    It never remotely occurred to me that you were saying anything downgrading about Danny.

    The chopped liver comment blindsided me too.

    Don't worry about it Ron. I don't think anyone else here thought that you were dismissing Danny as a less deserving individual. There wasn't anything wrong with how you said it.

  14. TelZilla

    TelZilla Friend of Leo's

    Jan 21, 2007
    Cleveburg, USA
    +1. Ron is a great resource to have on this board, givng FREE advice to us newbs and amateurs trying to piece together a workable guitar. He also seems like a very reasonable dude.

    Just the fact that he's here should separate him from Jay M.

  15. yegbert

    yegbert Poster Extraordinaire

    Sep 28, 2004
    Maryland (US)
    What difference does it make whether the customers are pro guitarists?

  16. Markl8

    Markl8 Tele-Meister

    Nov 3, 2006
    OK let me clarify speaking of "Cack" I said ALMOST LIKE..... I did not flame or seek to offend you Ron. I clearly stated that fact, I will say it was a bit sarcastic but thats about all. I just conveyed how your post struck me that is my opinion which I believe I am allowed that much here. We dont know each other and I am a relative newcomer to this board but I have zero tolerance for people doing this kind of garbage. As a business owner I would never ever put a client through this BS theres just no two ways about it.

  17. Ronkirn

    Ronkirn Doctor of Teleocity Vendor Member

    May 1, 2003
    Jacksonville, FL
    :D and dontcha love it

    Ron Kirn

  18. Ronkirn

    Ronkirn Doctor of Teleocity Vendor Member

    May 1, 2003
    Jacksonville, FL
    Hey everybody. . . everybody lighten up….

    Danny got a bad deal… from someone that once was pretty reliable.. I don’t know what happened, but Vintique’s performance speaks for its self….

    As for misunderstanding, or taking offense at what any one has or will say… try to be a little less confrontational in the replies.

    Over the years the rash of flaming that any opinionated statement can incur, has at least for me, made me somewhat reluctant to add my thoughts. I thought about it before I entered this discussion…see why?

    I’m sure others have also found avoiding such discussions prudent. The results: You wind up with a bunch of simple posts simply stating whatever technical hint may be apropos, and none of the insightful intellectual discussions that can be the progenitor of new thought.

    Let’s not make the TDPRI an ambiguous politically correct forum of bland blab, but let’s also not make every comment an opportunity to start a new peeing contest.

    Here’s hoping everything good comes your way Danny.

    Ron Kirn

  19. JohnnyCrash

    JohnnyCrash Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

    Mar 12, 2005
    Fullerton, CA
    Ron, in your defense...

    I think people are extrapulating things you're really NOT saying for a few reasons... the same reasons I initially did myself:

    1. You're a builder as well.
    2. In some situations "the other side" is rendered completely irrelevant - a defense is moot and/or ridiculous on many levels.
    3. Some of the phrases you use.

    When you say "weird stuff happens when you deal with the public", it's easy to infer that you look down on your customers AKA "the public" in general. Which may or may not be the case... but do you see how this makes an impression?

    The fact that you are in the same line of work as Jay and appear to be saying "let's get his side first" or "things like this are more common than you think", makes people feel like you're trying to make some sort of "buffer" for a day where you'd like the public's mercies for an unfortunate circumstance... I doubt you wouldn't at least openly communicate with your customers, unlike Jay.

    At the same time, Hamel, Jay, and other boutique folks HAVE actually tossed a fantastic reputation based on trust and a good track record out the window - so this reversal will always seem possible to "the public".

    Some cases require few facts to come to a realistic conclusion. This was a no-brainer for very many strong reasons. Yes, there are miles of posts here, but buried within them are many facts... as well as many suppositions that can be extrapolated by the context they're framed in. Danny's attitude, words chosen, emotions expressed. All of these things can give you an insight on motive, meaning, and even have factual value without need "confirmation".

    After a few extreme stretches of common sense in some defenses of Jay's behavior, people likewise draw inferences on motive... especially when very little can logically explain a 5 year delay after payment anyways.

    So when after hearing Danny's info and updates, then your defenses, then you finally realize the situation only after confirmation of a NY friend - this can appear like you held Danny's statements in little regard or less than factual.


    The bottom line is, it can be easy for people to misunderstand your intentions and statements... don't misconstrue the motives of these reactionary "flamings" as the angry attacks of folks who droll Red Man. Perhaps you have been misconstrued as well here?

    Likewise, to Paul or to you Ron, I was not attacking you personally, I was merely questioning your sanity in a tongue and cheek manner... as long as I've been a member here, I've ALWAYS shown humility, apology, and diplomacy. Which is required just to open your mouth around other human beings - we're ALL imperfect jackasses afterall.

    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 6, 2007

  20. buddywayne

    buddywayne Tele-Afflicted

    Oct 31, 2006
    It amazes me how the actions of one LOWLIFE thief affects so many people.

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