Vintage ES175/225/295 husk copy

Discussion in 'Other Guitars, other instruments' started by bender66, Jun 10, 2019.

  1. bender66

    bender66 Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

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    I had to gamble on this as you dont see them come along often... or ever.
    20190606_123944.jpg
    It appears to have had the tuners & trapeze installed. The trapeze screw hole caused a 31" finish crack all along the upper bout to the neck. A light confirms it's just the finish. Good excuse for some Reranch goldtop that I have. ;)
    20190606_122948.jpg
    20190606_123353.jpg I wasn't thrilled with the crack & mold not being mentioned ( thanks GFS.), but for $100, wth. Neck looks straight, truss rod works, top is undrilled. I have everything to assemble it 'cept a pg.

    I've really dug these being a Geordie Walker/Killing Joke fan so P90's and a trapeze it is.
    20190606_122214.jpg

    I threw the idea at a machinist/guitarist about fabricating some authentic tailpieces & bridge for me. Luckily he said I hadn't been the only one asking so that might happen. In the meantime...

    Anyone have any recommendations for the mold? I live in CA so it's pretty dry, but I'm not sure what to expect long term. Before I go wiring it up I better take care of it, yeah?

    Sorry about the awful flash pics. The 1st image looks like the real thing.

    Completely mental Phil X @12:30. The riff is nuts.


    And for the more refined taste Mr Koch with a fantastic gurning face send off.
     

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  2. tony hunt

    tony hunt Tele-Meister

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    Let me know if you need any measurements for the trapeze wrap-araound bridge project.

    Tony ES 295 Lobo.jpg
     
  3. bender66

    bender66 Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

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    Yes! My lord what a gorgeous guitar.

    I was hoping someone would have one & see this thread.

    Thank you sir.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2019
  4. tony hunt

    tony hunt Tele-Meister

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    That guitar is from my Geordie Walker influenced days, straight into a pair of of Burman amps. It is a lively beast. Later on, I developed my own voice with an Esquire and old blond Fender amps.

    Check the set-angle of the neck before going down the route of having a trapeze bridge made up. This trapeze bridge is down as low as it will go. I measure:

    apr. 12.75mm between the top of the fingerboard (middle) and the hollow body top
    apr. 22.2 mm between a straight edge laid on the neck and the body top. Measured between the PU and the bridge.
    apr. 25mm from the top of a wound G and the body top at the rear side of the bridge

    You'll looking for 22-25mm minimum between a straight edge on the neck and the top of the body at the bridge area to be able to get a trapeze bridge on it.
    If that works out, then keep a look out for 50's to early 60's P90s and you will start hitting the target.

    IMG_7012.JPG

    IMG_7013.JPG
     
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  5. bender66

    bender66 Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

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    Thank you, thank you, thank yooooo.

    Yes, I've already mocked it up somewhat just to check the neck angle. I'll get more specific as I get going, but I like what i'm seeing so far on this body. I'm sure there are quite a few spec differences between the Vintage & an authentic 295. My neck might have a shallower neck angle.

    Vintage branded model VSA575 was supposed to have HB's & a floating bridge, seen here. I figured the bridge P90 would need the block spacer like yours. Maybe not as big as an authentic, but a spacer also wide enough to cover the HB routes. To start i'll build it up on the cheap.
    [​IMG]
    I have a blank canvas AND (hopefully) can make adjustments to the bridge height/thickness/stance as it's being made? It might end up like the mojotone bridge? The originals look simple & crude... right up my alley. We'll see.

    What do you guess the bridge radius is on yours?

    It'd be a shame to not mention Scotty Moore in all this but Geordie Walker man. What a noisemaker.

    Audio gets iffy as the camera moves, but the quality video with that 295 is beautiful. I've seen a lot of shows at this club.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2019
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  6. Zepfan

    Zepfan Poster Extraordinaire

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    Your probably going to have to use Bleach to kill that mold. It's going to fun applying it through the F Holes.
    I've been wanting one of these for some time, just haven't been able to decide on pickups. HB's, FB's/Mini's, P90's or maybe something different.
     
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  7. bender66

    bender66 Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

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    The pickup routes are big enough to work through. I was thinking a damp bleach soaked cloth maybe pushed around, or just lightly misting the innards with a bleach mixture and wiping away?

    Another question for tony... on the tailpiece, how tight is the tolerance between the trapeze arms and the hinge? String tension is enough to hold the entire unit in place I'm guessing. I've never heard mention from owners about any shifting.

    What gauge *(edit-diameter) are the arms from the hinge to bridge (if you happen to have calipers)? Length?

    Sorry to ask so many questions. I'd PM you but I also hope this helps others down the line.

    I'm going to the midwest to visit in July/August. I might have to go to CME & take a look at one in person unless there's one in the Quad Cities.

    These historic RI's have really cleanly manufactured version visible at about the 1m mark.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2019
  8. Zepfan

    Zepfan Poster Extraordinaire

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    My avatar guitar has the same floating bridge setup as the one in this pic, but it does have a 1" square piece that is just under the bridge area to help with sustain and give a bit of sturdiness to the body. You'll need a good size block for those bridge inserts if you go that route. Not going to be easy getting that size block inside either. Unless your plan is to glue a piece under the top for those inserts alone and not to stabilize the top and bottom.
     
  9. bender66

    bender66 Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

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    There are no holes on an ES295 body for the bridge. The bridge sits on feet w a thumbwheel to adjust height. Feet are standing on top of the body like your floating bridge, held secure by the trapeze downward force & string pressure, like most hollows.

    There's an Epi version that comes with a Bigsby. I was wondering if a support had been placed in those or are they screwed right to the top?
     
  10. tony hunt

    tony hunt Tele-Meister

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    The Epi 295 had a floating bridge, it can move a bit. I think there was a rib under that area. Some where I have interior photos of both the Epi and the '56 Gibson.

    I'll measure with a caliper for the that question later. Looking for my neck radius guages to answer the radius question, it is probably 12".
     
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  11. bender66

    bender66 Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

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    This most important piece is on it's way to me.
    20190611_132934.jpg
    Perhaps someone watching this thread or just pure dumb luck. Having this will tell all.
     
  12. Zepfan

    Zepfan Poster Extraordinaire

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    I thought the feet screwed into inserts, but I'm not sure.

    I would probably go with a floating bridge on wood and a shorter Trapeze tail piece or B7 style Bigsby.
     
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  13. bender66

    bender66 Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

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    Here you get a good look at the feet & thumbwheel. That's all there is.
    [​IMG]

    I am gonna build it with the short trap & floater I have in my parts. I'll dial in the floating bridge to get a good idea on MY bridge height/neck angle limitations. Those specs, & my lone original bridge (above), can go to the machinist & he can decide how, if any, changes should be made. I did recommend a slightly lower profile bridge so a person could have more adjust-ability. A lightening bolt style would be a welcome addition I think. A more modern usable piece. The originals were prone to a few problems, some not being the fault of the bridge imo, but what do I know.

    I like the Bigsby idea, but you can get that guitar anywhere.

    If I can find a PG template or trace I'm set. I have a CNC guy too. It's good to have these guys.

    This vid gives specs (the Vintage is 17" across & 3 3/4" deep & a thin .78! neck) to an authentic '56.
     
  14. tony hunt

    tony hunt Tele-Meister

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    ES-295 Trapeze.png
    I measure 0.160" OD for the trapeze. Here is a sketch, most of the dimensions are in mm. I don't have an inch ruler, only the e-calipers.

    This type of bridge has no issues for me, but then I learnt on an old '61 SG Junior that had a similar simple no nonsense approach.

    Will follow up with some inside photos.
     
  15. tony hunt

    tony hunt Tele-Meister

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    This is a '56. I could not see or remember there being anykind of block under the bridge area. It is just two wood strip support thingys left and right (I forget the luthier word).
    I wonder what the black canvas type tape was for.

    Tony ES-295 front innerds.jpg Tony ES-295 insides 1.jpg Tony ES-295 insides 2.jpg Tony ES-295 thingy bass side.jpg
     
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  16. bender66

    bender66 Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

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    Beautiful Tony. Thank you for your help.

    The Vintage has the same bracing on the top running from the bridge pickup to the rear bout. I reached in to check on mine when I shot my moldy images.
     
  17. tony hunt

    tony hunt Tele-Meister

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    You are welcome.
    I have one more photo. Some tagliatelle for you:
    Tony ES-295 intestines.jpg
     
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  18. jayyj

    jayyj Tele-Afflicted

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    From memory it was the ES225 that had the reinforcing block under the bridge. If I get a chance I'll pull the pickup from mine tonight and get a photo.
     
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  19. bender66

    bender66 Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

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    Appreciate any help jayyj.

    Wouldn't it be easier to put your camera in the F-hole?

    Man, that sounds rude.
     
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  20. jayyj

    jayyj Tele-Afflicted

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    I (cough) think my camera's a bit on the large size to fit in a small slot like that!
     
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