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tube amp snobs..check this awesome Tele tone!..

Discussion in 'Amp Central Station' started by slinger, Jul 30, 2018.

  1. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Doctor of Teleocity

    Age:
    58
    Mar 2, 2010
    Maine
    All my Nakamichi decks are in Japan getting serviced, seems there's a holdup due to replacement belts being inferior to the originals so they are sourcing some reissue rubber to make belts worthy of tube tone.
    I'll demag and align the heads on one of my three head dual pinch roller Sony decks so I'm ready to hear Spider tone in all its glory!

    Wow and flutter and tape saturation rocks!
    Those digital echoplex sims are pretty close too, better at worse-tone than any digital recording sims of tape saturation.

    Do the latest amp sims designed for recording slip in a little tape sim to spice up the recordings of tube tone and make them sound more vintage correct?
     

  2. BelairPlayer

    BelairPlayer Tele-Afflicted

    Jun 22, 2010
    Ca
    I like your style. Very clever.
     

  3. NJ Deadhead

    NJ Deadhead Tele-Meister

    Age:
    36
    259
    Jan 25, 2017
    Greenville, SC
    Nice playing, sounds just like I expected though. There is no dimension to it at all. It sounds like a cheap replica.
     

  4. Jakedog

    Jakedog Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

    Mar 26, 2003
    The North Coast
    Disclaimer- I'm merely quoting the above post to illustrate a point. There is no accusation of snobbery or snobbish behavior afoot where the above poster is concerned.



    It's not snobby at all to like what you like. Not in the least.

    It is snobby to insist that the reason you like it is because it's inherently superior.

    It is also snobby to infer that anybody who disagrees that what one likes is inherently superior, are themselves inferior in one way or another.

    Most of what I see from the diehard tube camp (and I used to be guilty of this myself) is not simply liking what they like. It's a dismissive attitude that obviously people who don't prefer tubes either

    A. Don't know what they are missing or haven't experienced a tube amp.

    B. Aren't versed enough to hear and understand the differences.

    C. Aren't as enlightened or as smart as folks who've figured out that nothing beats tubes.

    All of that is in fact snobbery.

    Conversely, all I hear generally from the modeling camp is that their stuff is just as good, most folks can't tell the difference, and there's really no need to carry around heavy, hot, primitive, outdated tech anymore to get good sounds. All of this is absolutely true. Yet it incites tube purists to high silliness and accusations of being attacked for liking what they like.

    The only truth is- neither side of the coin is better. They're just different. Between tubes and modelers, if I had to choose right now today, I'd probably still take tubes. Because I gig for a living and I don't believe the modelers that I can afford are entirely there yet.

    But there are a lot that are. And the tech is exploding. In another 5-10 years, the tech that costs the most and sounds the best today will be available in a sub $500 amp that absolutely kills.

    Luckily I don't have to choose, because I don't have a dog in that fight. I'm an analog solid state guy now. And I'm happier than I ever was fighting with tube amps and their limited dynamics and poor behavior for thirty years. I put up with it because tonewise, it was the best we could do then. It's not any longer. It's possible to have great tone, and have an extremely dynamic amplifier that behaves what I consider properly.

    Is it better than tubes? To me it is. Would it be to somebody else? Not if they're happy with tube amp behavior.

    The bottom line is that insisting any of this tech is better than the other, is snobbery. Because there is no better or worse. Only different.

    People on all ends need to figure out that indeed, we like what we like. Liking something better doesn't make it superior. People who don't like the same stuff as you aren't inferior, and neither are their ears.

    Personally, how an amp smells is about the lowest item on my list when I'm shopping for one. Unless it smells like cat piss. Then it's definitely out of the running.
     

  5. strat a various

    strat a various Friend of Leo's

    May 9, 2008
    Texas
    It's all a matter of taste, right? Except this ... all the fancy digital amps are trying to sound like tube amps, and very few tube amps are designed to emulate the tone of Solid State amps. Digital amps are the soy protein vs real meat version of amps ... made to taste exactly like what tastes great, and someone assures us that it does, in fact, taste just like beef, and it's more convenient and better in so many modern logical ways. They hate those beef snobs who think real meat is superior to veggie-burgers. The nerve!
     
    stevemc, Owenmoney and LiteAsh like this.

  6. maxvintage

    maxvintage Friend of Leo's Ad Free Member

    Age:
    59
    Mar 16, 2003
    Arlington, VA

    Sure. I don't have any modeling amps and rarely use amps sims in the DAW. EQ compression, and saturation plugins seem to wrk better for me. I don't actually have a dog in the hunt--I...I like solid state amps, and my pro jr which I've modified all over the place.

    I don't especially like the tone he gets in that video but then it's not the kind of tone I aim to get and I'm not an aficionado, so I'm not a good judge.

    But it sees to me that ALL amps involve compromise. Every now and then they are perfect, but mostly they are too big/too small/too clean/too dirty/too heavy/ for the gig a LOT of the time. I mean that's why there's a big pedal market, and somehow a solid state pedal gets you the tone of a...don't get me started.

    The models I've tried and I haven't found very satisfying not because they don't sound good, but they sound too much like something else I DON'T want to sound like, and the introduce a bunch of things I have to kind of fight through.


    It's really not a zero sum game
     

  7. Doctorx33

    Doctorx33 Tele-Afflicted

    Jun 8, 2014
    atlanta
    This is an ugly thread, unworthy of the Telecaster Forum.
     

  8. MilwMark

    MilwMark Poster Extraordinaire Ad Free Member

    Apr 29, 2013
    near Arnold's
    Did you intend to support his point or was that just the result?

    By the way, my friends who are vegetarian can't stand veggie burgers that "taste like beef". They just them to taste good. Tasting like beef is off-putting.

    I want my SS analog amp and my Katana (it might be a modeler, I don't really know) to sound good. And to have the dynamics I want. They both do that more reliably than any tube amp I used. No more tube-rolling, speaker swapping, always-on pedals, etc. They work better for me because neither exhibits the limited dynamic range @Jakedog alludes to. And I can EQ both to sound just like I want, and give just the feel I want (I rely a lot on my right hand, guitar controls and pickup selection for dynamics), with the level of grit I want, at the volumes I need. The fact that they weigh substantially less is just a side bonus.

    Your response is very typical IME. Tubes are "real" and non-tubes are not. Just like veggie burgers (or whatever) are fake and meat is real. Wrong. What matters is do people enjoy how the veggie burgers taste and do they provide the nutrition sought. Just like with, you know, meat. Same with amp technology.
     
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  9. strat a various

    strat a various Friend of Leo's

    May 9, 2008
    Texas
    Is the manufacturer trying to make the veggie-burger taste like meat? Or are they selling broccolli patties with kale-flavor grill marks? I like Solid State amps ... they will pry my Polytone from my cold, dead fingers. I've never heard a digital amp sound remotely like a good tube amp. It's good, then, that digital amp users really don't like beef of want their amps to taste beefy ... because they really don't. Tube amps don't sound any better than digital amps, but they sound a heck of a lot more like tube amps.
     
    LiteAsh likes this.

  10. MilwMark

    MilwMark Poster Extraordinaire Ad Free Member

    Apr 29, 2013
    near Arnold's
    I can certainly agree with that.
     

  11. Whatizitman

    Whatizitman Tele-Holic

    536
    Feb 18, 2018
    WV
    I disagree. I have yet to play through a budget pre-amp and/or interface for direct recording that has allowed me to take advantage of what a "good" sim has purported to offer. Yes it sounds like the amp and/or speaker set up it's modeled on. (Or rather, it sounds like a previous recording of it. Not a live sound). No it does not sound good to me. Not at all. Thin, cold, ice-picky, and grainy. Doesn't matter what guitar or pick up used. It's all bad to me.

    Talking about budget/cheap multi-track, though. Good pres make direct recording far better. But it's no longer cheap.

    This problem is easily bypassed by sticking an sm57 in front of an amp, however. Any amp. Tube or modeling, solid state. Doesn't matter. Even into the same cheap pre-amp and/or interface. Light years better IMO. Yes this limits mixing and post-processing options. But it's not a compromise if the alternative doesn't sound good to begin with.
     

  12. Whatizitman

    Whatizitman Tele-Holic

    536
    Feb 18, 2018
    WV
    I prefer tube amps. I'm not a snob. I haven't fallen in love with any modeling amp I've tried. But I'm not going to try to mask the fact I'm limited to cognitive bias as much as anyone.

    I will say that I do have a beef with playing through a PC. Not so much with modeling amps, as they are actual guitar amps. As a few have said, regardless of how good a modeling plug-in sounds, your listening is still limited by playback/monitoring solutions. It's coming out of a computer. Not a guitar amp. It's not physically possible for a speaker sim to make a PC speaker (or monitor, or headphones) sound like a live 4x12 cab, for instance. It can, however, sound like a mic'ed cab, which may what you are going for. That's a big difference that should not be confused, IMO. That can be great for recording. But not so great for practice or live play. At least not to me.
     

  13. SngleCoil

    SngleCoil Tele-Holic

    558
    Apr 13, 2010
    Charlotte, NC
    I like beef. Of course I also like this spicy green been and farro dish I made for lunch. Chicken is good too, grilled preferably. Oooooo and sushi! Love sushi!

    Sorry, what were we talking about again? :oops:
     
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  14. beninma

    beninma Tele-Afflicted Ad Free Member

    Age:
    41
    Mar 17, 2017
    Massachusetts
    The more I play I start thinking none of it really matters. Tube, SS, Modeler, it's all good once you figure out how to make your guitar work with that particular amp and the amp is appropriately sized for the volume level you need.

    I practiced on a crapped out old Line 6 modeling amp earlier today that got donated to the "game room" in our office. It took me longer to dial it in than it does for me to dial in either of my amps (Orange Rocker 15 or THR5) but once I figured it out it certainly didn't hold me back. That was the first time I ever plugged into it, next time it won't take me as long to get it set up right.

    Likewise I practice quite a bit on Orange 35RTs and once I get them adjusted they're fine too (Solid State, no modeling).

    I don't really want to mess with a PC 99.99% of the time though. Modeling Amp, Tube Amp, SS, I'd prefer a simple interface with dials.
     
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  15. jrblue

    jrblue Tele-Meister

    482
    Nov 14, 2010
    Santa Barbara
    Justabluesguy nailed it. A Greg Koch sounds great because he's a fantastic musician and player. Stop fostering SS vs Tube smackdowns, or analog vs digital deathmatches. Most of us enjoy and use all this stuff, and understand that others have their own preferences. The OP is an insult.
     
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  16. tfarny

    tfarny Tele-Afflicted

    Sep 4, 2008
    Hudson Valley, NY
    I can't tell the difference between the new round of modeling / software and the real thing, over the internet, either wearing headphones or on the decent stereo speakers hooked up to my computer. I don't know what the purists mean when they say something sounds 2D, fake tube, or whatever. In person, cranked up, I'm not sure I could tell the difference between my Katana 100 and the "real thing" and I'm completely sure the audience at a gig can't tell. Or if anybody can, I'm not sure the tube amp will sound better more than 50% of the time.

    That doesn't mean it's wrong to love tubes, and there are some advantages to playing through one "real" amp all the time. And maybe you can tell the difference blindfolded, or maybe you don't want to try. You like your stuff, you know how to use it, it has lots of mojo. It's ok too - I'm glad there are good old tube amps out there and I love how they sound. And I absolutely want to get a Matchless clone someday soon.

    But overall, sheesh - this is as bad as Mac Vs. PC at this point - all emotion and very little real discussion.
     

  17. Piggy Stu

    Piggy Stu Friend of Leo's

    Feb 26, 2017
    UK
    It is 930pm in my pigsty and my daughter has been asleep for an hour

    If I was in by myself I would be attempting to detach my retinas using a tube amp after reading the rallying cry for them in here

    'Fk yeah'

    Can't the person who does memes changes the Braveheart meme to a tube amp?

    (Not the bit where they expose buttocks pls: the bit where he says 'you can take our lives, but not our Twin Reverb')
     

  18. SngleCoil

    SngleCoil Tele-Holic

    558
    Apr 13, 2010
    Charlotte, NC
    I wonder if you go to another type of artist’s forum...like a painter’s forum or something...if they argue over the clear superiority of oil as a medium vs. acrylic. Ugh and don’t even get me started on watercolor! Talk about washed out.

    Of course real paint and canvas are soooo last century now that digital painting apps are available to emulate any of those. :p
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2018
    JustABluesGuy and stratoman1 like this.

  19. LeicaBoss

    LeicaBoss Tele-Meister

    324
    Oct 16, 2015
    New Jersey
    That software is pretty good, but you need a really really good interface to get the most from it. Gets expensive.

    Being a modeler + tubes guy, I am amused by the comments. Or horrified and amused.
     

  20. JustABluesGuy

    JustABluesGuy Friend of Leo's

    Age:
    60
    Sep 2, 2016
    Houston, TX
    Has anyone else noticed that the troll that started this thread did a “post and run”?

    He hasn’t defended his own thread. This @slinger troll just posts some inflammatory crap, and then runs away completely?

    I hope there’s an ignore list here!
     

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