Asher Guitars WD Music Products Amplified Parts Mod Kits DIY Nordstarnd Pickups Warmoth.com
Asher Guitars WD Music Products Amplified Parts Mod Kits DIY Nordstarnd Pickups Warmoth.com
Asher Guitars WD Music Products Amplified Parts Mod Kits DIY Nordstarnd Pickups Warmoth.com

Truth in Capacitors

Discussion in 'Tele-Technical' started by Kirfew, Apr 12, 2012.

  1. tele12

    tele12 Friend of Leo's

    Dec 2, 2006
    NY
    What always amazes me about these type of threads is how many of the over 50 crowd (of which I am) can tell other people what they can and can't hear as if it were a fact.
     

  2. Jupiter

    Jupiter Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

    Jun 22, 2010
    Osaka, Japan
    Haven't checked this thread in a week or so; did we get to the "truth" yet?
     

  3. Jupiter

    Jupiter Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

    Jun 22, 2010
    Osaka, Japan
    hehheh :cool:
     

  4. raito

    raito Friend of Leo's

    Nov 22, 2010
    Madison, WI
    Your scenario doesn't remove observer bias. You need at least a blind test. So you have the 2 caps in and Mr. Sniffer can't see them. Play one, play the other, etc., and ask him which is A and which is B. Doesn't even matter if he's the one playing (have them on a switch).

    If you want to be really mean, you do multiple tests, and some of the test use 2 of the same cap.
     

  5. Rob DiStefano

    Rob DiStefano Poster Extraordinaire Vendor Member

    Age:
    71
    Mar 3, 2003
    NJ via TX
    standard lab blind test procedure. been there, done that, administered at least three tests, NO ONE could routinely pick out the pio from the "bumble bee" from the ceramic from the metal film from the polyester. all caps were used in the same guitar, stuck into/out of a transistor socket that spanned the wiper lug to ground on a "tone" pot, all caps were checked for precise value on a quality meter. all this guitar "vintage" cap talk is pure nonsense, as is most of the hype and myth surrounding guitars - as if the instruments could make awesome music all by themselves. hah. :D
     

  6. Delta Blues

    Delta Blues Tele-Afflicted

    Dec 22, 2011
    GA
    After testing the ones I ordered I couldn't here any difference either. Neither could my girlfriend who had no idea what I was doing. Now to find some old defective PIO to test.

    :twisted:
     

  7. Mart the Hat

    Mart the Hat Tele-Meister

    472
    Feb 11, 2013
    Edinburgh, Scotland
    This would almost be the more useful test. You could set up repeated tests with an unmarked A/B switch - in some tests it would have two different caps, in some it would have two of type A or type B (or even not be switching anything). The listener would record whether they thought there had been a change or not for each example. This would simply test the hypothesis that the listener could reliably tell a difference, without getting into the subjective stuff. I don't see the boutique cap guys going for this sort of thing any time soon though...
     

  8. wrathfuldeity

    wrathfuldeity Tele-Holic

    878
    Apr 25, 2011
    Turdcaster, WA
    I'm over 50, loosing my hearing and I found my truth...the only truth that matters...now get the hell off my lawn:lol:

    Anyway I was doing the cap chase and tried a dozen or so of various chicks, disc, pio, drops, bees and etc. I could not really hear a difference. Then one day I had a bright idea to tear one (piw?) out of an old 50's reel to reel that was waiting to be gutted for parts. I could hear a difference, a pleasing difference...more of a warm mellow...yumminess....DONE...one in the tele and 1 in the carvin strat...modern transparent to a warm vintage. Now I don't know what or how and don't care...cause I love it.

    [​IMG]
     

  9. Delta Blues

    Delta Blues Tele-Afflicted

    Dec 22, 2011
    GA
    Aw man you beat me to it.

    :cool:
     

  10. TheRumRunner

    TheRumRunner Tele-Afflicted

    Could be that the magic tonz are in your sloppy soldering :eek::D:cool:

    I keed, I keed.

    DW

     

  11. mrkenny

    mrkenny Former Member

    412
    Sep 29, 2012
    maryland
    I got me an old waxy .05 Tiger, I like mine too. Run all the tests you want I could care less.
     

  12. gitlvr

    gitlvr Friend of Leo's

    Aug 18, 2008
    Northern Va.
    Would have loved to watch the vid, but when I try, I get, "This video is private". That sucks.
    As to the cap question, IMHO if you believe it matters, it does.
     

  13. Wileyone

    Wileyone Tele-Holic

    642
    Dec 10, 2011
    Right Coast
    Looks like a fake to me. Someone changed that .01 to an .02. Or maybe it's just Plumbers flux residue?
     

  14. chris m.

    chris m. Friend of Leo's

    That is some hideous soldering right there...maybe you just had a cold solder joint before. That would do it right there.
     

  15. francomanca

    francomanca Tele-Meister

    387
    Jul 27, 2010
    italy
    I mean no polemic neither offense....talking about myself........I'm 52 and my ears never worked real well.....
    So when I had to choose the caps for my 335 I had to buy some huge cylinder paper in oil cap with a silver grey casing and some ununderstandble russian wording on them....maybe 5 us each vs 5 cents for the cheap lentil cap....
    Is there any difference in tone? ....have no clue....but I'm proud of those and I sleep well at night....I think I'm the best marketing slave .....lol.
    ...is like...fishing black bass ...they will bite anything ....sure caps too...
     

  16. ZZB3

    ZZB3 Tele-Holic

    819
    Apr 17, 2009
    Salem, Oregon
    I just wired in some Seth Lovers with new 500k pots and yes "Radio Shack" .022 green chicklet caps into a 335 copy and guess what; the guitar sounds great and my friend is very happy. Too much time into the parts of the guitar and not the playing of the guitar. Have fun, Wayne
     

  17. bamboozer

    bamboozer NEW MEMBER!

    1
    Sep 9, 2013
    Delaware
    I like the PIO caps, having said that sometimes there is a noticeable difference in the tone, sometimes none at all. I suspect the orange drops are as good as any other for most of us.
     

  18. Rob DiStefano

    Rob DiStefano Poster Extraordinaire Vendor Member

    Age:
    71
    Mar 3, 2003
    NJ via TX
    a gentle reminder, as this thread plods on with its inherent nonsense ...

    pio caps are reasonably delicate and have a limited shelf life and are meant for real electronic circuits, not passive guitar circuits. got a pio? whether new or old, meter it for value - but it still may be a leaker and then it's worthless krap.

    the only one thing that matters for passive guitar circuit "tone" pot caps is the value - don't trust the label, use a meter to make sure or at least know what it truly is, and thus what it will do to destroy a pup's treble as it lures and shuttles it over to the dark side of ground like leemings to the sea.

    cap tolerance only matters if ... 1. you don't have a capacitance meter, or, 2. you have a goodly trust in product labels.

    cap durability depends on its build - pio suck, ceramic are so-so, plastic dips last almost forever if not burnt out by mistake.

    in a double blindfold test, no one can tell the type or build difference of any number of caps that have the precise same metered value when yer ears hear each one in the same guitar, through the same amp. think you can? you got some disposable cash? wanna bet, sparky? :D
     

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