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Tried 5881 in my tweed deluxe clone

Discussion in 'Amp Central Station' started by RossL, Jan 13, 2019 at 1:05 AM.

  1. RossL

    RossL TDPRI Member

    22
    Dec 23, 2018
    New Jersey
    i plugged in a set of Sovtek 5881s in my tweed deluxe clone. I like the bass response and headroom. I know this defeats the design and breakup for the tweed deluxe but I need more headroom

    Is there a power transformer that would support the extra heater current?

    What PT is used in the proluxe?
     
  2. Uncle Daddy

    Uncle Daddy Tele-Holic

    604
    Sep 26, 2015
    Maldon, England
    What speaker are you using?

    The TungSol 5881 is rated for 6.3v on the heaters.
     
  3. Dacious

    Dacious Poster Extraordinaire

    Mar 16, 2003
    Godzone
    Do you have 12AY7 in the front slot? That produces a much cleaner 'clean' with less hair.
     
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  4. jhundt

    jhundt Doctor of Teleocity

    Age:
    64
    Mar 23, 2003
    Netherlands
    what power transformer is in your amp now? Have you checked the filament capacity of that one already?
     
  5. Dacious

    Dacious Poster Extraordinaire

    Mar 16, 2003
    Godzone
    Also swapping the .047 coupling caps for .022s will reduce the ratty, raspy fartiness. RobRob has page/s accessible off this site with 5E3 mods which can remove a lot of the rough edges while retaining the essential character of the amp.
     
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  6. Uncle Daddy

    Uncle Daddy Tele-Holic

    604
    Sep 26, 2015
    Maldon, England
    Without pulling things apart to check, I'm fairly sure my Proluxe has a Hammond 1740J (35w) and a 290CEX (40w/240v). It has headroom for days, and doesn't really break up with 6L6s till things get loud, using a GZ34 rectifier. It's and easy swap back to 6V6s and a 5y3, and though it doesn't have the same early breakup and saturation as my 5E3, it has a much more musical tone, as is my go-to tweed amp for thicker mids without all the fart and rattle. With single coils it's glorious.

    I think the Op's question about heater voltage is a bit of a red herring.
     
  7. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

    Mar 17, 2003
    Lubbock, TX
    The OP didn’t inquire about heater voltage but rather asked about a PT’s ability to support the added heater filament current draw.
    +1 on the 12AY7 suggestion. I would also add that these circuits are very responsive to pick attack...and heavy pick attack will preclude clean signals while lighter pick attack can yield clean signal at high volume settings, ime.
     
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  8. cousinpaul

    cousinpaul Friend of Leo's

    Jun 19, 2009
    Nashville TN
    PT in mine is a Weber W025130 and OT is a Weber W404248. It was originally a fixed bias amp but I found that I prefer it in cathode bias. I also like a 12AY7 for v1. Be advised there are also differences in the filter caps and, if you go with cathode bias, the 5 watt 250 ohm bias resistor needs to be upgraded to 10 watt.

    My impressions of the Proluxe echo Uncle Daddy's and RobRob's site is a great resource. He documents a Proluxe build in detail.
     
  9. archetype

    archetype Fiend of Leo's Silver Supporter

    Jun 4, 2005
    Williamsville NY
    Calling @robrob OP, everything you need to know about the 5881/6L6GC "ProLuxe" is right here...

    https://robrobinette.com/AmpBuild.htm
     
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  10. King Fan

    King Fan Friend of Leo's Ad Free Member

    Jan 1, 2013
    Salt Lake City
    Lol, I get a mental image: Silhouette of Rob's avatar projected by a giant spotlight onto the perennial nighttime clouds over DIYGotham....
     
  11. RossL

    RossL TDPRI Member

    22
    Dec 23, 2018
    New Jersey
    Transformers are classic tone tweed deluxe types both PT and OT.

    I am using an NOS RCA 12ay7 in number one. RCA nos 5y3 for 6v6. With the 5881 I tried a 5u4 and a gz34. I seem to like the higher voltage of the gz34

    I recently installed F&T 22/500 PS caps and .1 Zoso blue coupling caps

    Speaker is the Weber version of the P12Q. Lite dope version I forgot the Weber part number. But it sounds fine with the 5881. Although I am not sure it can take the extra watts. If not I will use it in another amp

    I do have a heavy right hand but even trying a light touch for something like SRVs Lenny the Stock deluxe breaks up too much at any setting after 3
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2019 at 12:30 PM
  12. RossL

    RossL TDPRI Member

    22
    Dec 23, 2018
    New Jersey
    I have been studying Robs web page. But I couldn’t find a part number for the PT. There is so much info there sometimes I start reading and get side tracked
     
  13. Uncle Daddy

    Uncle Daddy Tele-Holic

    604
    Sep 26, 2015
    Maldon, England
    Don't forget that diming the unused volume will scoop the mids and clean things up.
     
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  14. RossL

    RossL TDPRI Member

    22
    Dec 23, 2018
    New Jersey
    Thanks UD.....I have tried all different settings with the three controls and tried a jumper between the channels.

    Another note I also installed Robs Negative feedback mod which helped a little.

    The tweed deluxe does not do what I need it to do. That’s why I am researching other possibilities. Since it’s a clone I am not defacing an original. And I could always restore it to stock specs
     
  15. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

    Mar 17, 2003
    Lubbock, TX
    Ross, ime, a heavy right hand precludes certain things when playing a guitar. Cathodes biasing seems to magnify the effect of heavy picking compared to fixed...but fixed exhibits the same effects at a different level and in a different way, ime.
    I consider an amp like the 5E3 to be an excellent teacher concerning pick attack. As a learning technique, I advise that one should set that amp up this way...instrument into Bright #1 with that volume osmewhere i; the 6-8 n7mber range, tone past halfway, and the Normal channel set at 6-8 as well. The interaction of these channels at this ‘off channel setting’ seems to yield the hottest signal ime. Then.....force yourself to play lightly enough to get a clean signal....It can be done, believe me. This is where these amps start working, imho. The cleans will be very lively...lots of harmonic content. An increase in pick attack will yield a stronger signal and an overdrive. Compression keeps the volume at same level as the clean when playing this way.
    A person might not decide to play the amp this way, but it is definitely a way to 8nstruct the picking hand of the versatility that can be had when control of the attack is had. After all, in staff music, there are written signs for different levels...pppp, ppp,pp, p, f, ff, fff, ffff. A guitar amp can yield different volumes but they can also yield different distortion levels with nothing more than an adjustment of the attack. Ime, at 3 on the volume dial, a 5E3 ois nowhere near be8ng in play mode. Ommv.
     
  16. Uncle Daddy

    Uncle Daddy Tele-Holic

    604
    Sep 26, 2015
    Maldon, England
    Sometimes you just have to face it that your gear doesn't give you what you need. I've just about reached that point with my own 5e3. I also have a Tweed Super which tonally is pretty similar to the Deluxe, but with more everything. It doesn't have the same volume interaction but makes up for it in other ways. The 25 odd watts with 2x10 speakers work really well, with more volume, more headroom and sweeter tones.
     
  17. archetype

    archetype Fiend of Leo's Silver Supporter

    Jun 4, 2005
    Williamsville NY
    There's also a RobPhone on the commissioner's desk. It's not red, it's tweed.
     
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  18. Dacious

    Dacious Poster Extraordinaire

    Mar 16, 2003
    Godzone
    Yes, if the 5E3 won't play clean enough at desired volume the Tweed 6L6 amps probably will. I tried Ruby 6L6s in my Excelsior (big 5E3ish design) which largely cleaned up the splatty distortion - I didn't like the change in character though. It went sort of big and dark.
     
  19. RossL

    RossL TDPRI Member

    22
    Dec 23, 2018
    New Jersey
    Thanks I agree with everything you say .....when playing something quiet like Lenny I am not digging into the strings....and the amp is not cutting it, at least not at the level I need to be at, with other instruments in the room.
    If I play TexasFlood I am picking with a more aggressive attack which the amp does not respond to very well. Even the intro to a Texas Flood sounds too a little too dirty and thin on the deluxe unless I am really backing off on the pick and the amp is on two.

    I probably should have built a Super Reverb LOL
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2019 at 5:25 PM
  20. King Fan

    King Fan Friend of Leo's Ad Free Member

    Jan 1, 2013
    Salt Lake City
    A 5E3 on 2 (ok, 2.1 or 2.3 or 2.7) is not most amps on 2. Most of the 5E3 volume ramp runs from 2 to 4 -- then you start up the dirt ramp. Each 5E3 is a little different, and even simple changes (12AX7 in V1? lol) make some very different. But a stock-spec 5e3 should be pretty clean in the first quarter of the dial -- *if* you max the opposite volume to the point it starts to quiet the tone too much -- maybe 10-11? YMMV, experimentation helps, it may help to turn the tone (gain-y) down some, but instrument channel 3-4, mic channel on 10-11, should give a clean (but loud) 5E3 tone that Lenny or Little Wing totally live in.
     
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