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Tom Petty ... Another Victim

Discussion in 'Bad Dog Cafe' started by FenderGyrl, Jan 19, 2018.

  1. JL_LI

    JL_LI Tele-Afflicted

    May 20, 2017
    Long Island, NY
    My brother in law is an MD. Years back, he was explaining end of life medical problems to me while his father was failing. I believe what he told me applies here. "Sometimes you can't make something better without making something else worse, and in the end it all gets worse."

    We don't need to know how that happened. We don't need to speculate. The coroner can't even know for sure. Tom Petty left us a legacy of great music that we can listen to until it gets irreversibly worse for us. For me, I'm going to leave it at that and maybe say a prayer.

  2. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Doctor of Teleocity

    Mar 2, 2010
    I have no argument with what you're saying and agree that dealers cutting with fentanyl instead of baby laxative kills more, but there are many lost lives that don't show up in these stats.

    That 30 yard dumpster 2/3 full of dead addict files was near as I could tell all AIDS deaths, because the "Harm reduction" program provided free clean needles, HIV testing, and HIV treatment.
    When I got clean in May of '98, it seemed there were as many HIV deaths as OD deaths.
    I did a 12 step program commitment in a detox and a mens' holding facility on the grounds of Tewksbury State Hospital for years, and on the compound there was a building with a floor full of dying AIDS patients. Hundreds of beds for the unwanted wrapping up life in a State hospital.
    Those lives and deaths never got represented in the OD stats.
    The medical community was for some time not very aggressive in seeking treatment or cure, because to many, it only took two groups of undesirable citizens.

    I do recall in the beginning of the 21st C there was an increase of heroin use in high schools and even trickling down to Jr high, where 12 year olds were getting treated for OD in Massachusetts.
    In the news it was discussed that nice kids might have intimate contact with drug using kids, and the fight against HIV/ AIDS suddenly picked up more support.

    Soon Hep C became the bigger killer, and up until maybe five years ago it was a death sentence. Around the end of Hep C's reign as top killer, fentanyl stepped into the spotlight.

    When lived in NYC I knew an old Jazz drummer (Dennis Charles, Cecil Taylors first drummer), who had been a junkie since his teens. Remarkable to survive that long.
    He told me about his wife dying from an infection, because back then she would have been arrested if taken to the hospital.
    This was and still is to some degree a common COD for these folks, and does not make the OD stats.
    I looked Dennis up recently on Google and it turns out he died in '98 shortly after i got clean.

    One man I see in meetings is a Vietnam Vet, who says he picked up the habit in his service. He claims that it was the only way to sleep in the jungle.
    I don't know how in hell he survived all those years since then, he has less than five years clean. Interesting stories about how bullets bounce around inside a Huey before settling down.

    I did an event with the VA for homeless Vets some years back, under some cloverleaf where there were a lot of Vets camped out.
    Sadly few came to get VA services or talk with 12 step volunteers.
    One fellow joined us and shared some hugs.
    Can't imagine the other numbers.
    8barlouie, Frodebro, JL_LI and 4 others like this.

  3. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Doctor of Teleocity

    Mar 2, 2010
    On topic I really love Tom and his music, and can relate to him even more after watching some interviews with him. A really sweet funny warm human being, whom to my observation really gave to humanity with his music.
    Maybe that sounds dumb compared to others who serve humanity.
    IDK, I just wanted to bring my own comments back to Tom.

    I can relate a lot to how he felt and existed, how he struggled internally with his obviously hard to contain and manage- drive to carry out his formidable artistry.

    I can also relate to his having kicked the H habit years back but then being given no other options for his physical pain, and going back on opiate pain meds because nothing else exists with the power it took to perform on a fractured hip.
    What the hell???
    Who is that driven to perform???
    Can any of us really imagine being that driven?
    Some probably can.

    So I relate to his predicament because I have gradually worsening chronic pain that non narcotic pain meds no longer cut.
    I have no idea what I will do when I can't take it any more.
    From what I've seen in recovery, no matter how many years an addict has been clean, taking opiates again for a surgery/ pain releases our addiction all over again.
    You cannot rationalize it away, family cannot support it away, and intervention cannot mitigate it away.
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2018

  4. Mike Eskimo

    Mike Eskimo Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

    Nov 9, 2008
    It's the Jerry Garcia/cargo ship conundrum.

    The tour's booked, venue's reserved, tickets have been sold, gigantic crew is assembled, drivers hired, rehearsals have been held, band members have made plans - AND it's a big anniversary tour.

    Bottom line : a ton of folks are depending on their piece of that pie for their fiscal year.

    Hell, Jerry had a hard enough time telling the Dead organization a year in advance - "I want to really take it easy next year, maybe not tour in the summer, only do half as many shows..."

    And you see how successful he was at that.

    That is the "how long does it take a huge cargo ship to stop and then turn around ?" angle.

    The momentum of a huge organization.

    So, you know there is a ton of pressure to not let everybody mentioned above down.

    I think that was his driving force - not ego or the stage.

    I think just the opposite. I'm sure he thought, "Just do the big 40th Anniversary tour and then pick and choose after that. I wanna be home, I've been out on the road for decades, I have a grand daughter, etc..."

    I wish the big fracture had happened in June - maybe canceling the tour would have been inevitable then and he might still be here.

    Marln864, Bellacaster, elihu and 5 others like this.

  5. alnico357

    alnico357 Tele-Meister

    Jun 2, 2015
    I'm a pharmacist. Let me tell you a few tales...........
    Marln864, Doug 54, stephent2 and 3 others like this.

  6. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Doctor of Teleocity

    Mar 2, 2010
    Yeah point taken @Mike Eskimo , had he been a lesser man less dedicated to his mates and fans he would probably have cancelled, and he would not have chosen to book a tour had he know he'd be strapping on the Rick with a broken hip.

    Odd how even here, many view rock stars as having it easy.
    Some of the stuff said here about Chris Cornell was supremely uninformed, unkind, and presumptuous. But here we are, humanity in all our frailty and bravado.

  7. Dan R

    Dan R Friend of Leo's

    Mar 17, 2003
    Charleston, SC
    I can't add much here except the profound sadness of the loss of one of my favorite musical heroes. Rock on in a better place, Tom. We miss you very much.
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2018

  8. Mike Eskimo

    Mike Eskimo Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

    Nov 9, 2008
    ^^^ People said bad crap about Cornell in this thread ?

    THAT'S one reason why I rarely read entire threads.

    F them. Ignoramuses...

  9. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Doctor of Teleocity

    Mar 2, 2010
    No, sorry!
    Chris had his own posthumous thread to get bad stuff said about him and "his kind"...

    Make me think about how far some of our heroes are willing to go to make us all happy.
    In the end it makes us all sad or angry anyhow.
    Frail bravado...

  10. Mike Eskimo

    Mike Eskimo Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

    Nov 9, 2008
    I have been listening to Tom Petty Radio on Sirius for years and listening to it and his Buried Treasure show a lot since he died.

    His humor makes it easier.

    He had fun in life - don't paint him as the totally tragic figure.

    2 often-told stories about him and George and their shared sense of humor.

    1.) The day after Roy Orbison died George said to Tom "Aren't you glad it wasn't you ?" :lol:

    2.) After George survived the knife attack in his home because his wife beat the attacker senseless with a fireplace tool, Petty called him up in the Hospital to check on him and then said "Aren't you glad you married a Mexican ?" :lol:

  11. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Doctor of Teleocity

    Mar 2, 2010
    Thanks for that!
    Yeah being willing to keep it up even if it kills them may be 99% joyous triumph.

    I share a similarly sick irreverent sense of humor with my wife, though in reality I'm very reverent.
    Now if our marriage can survive...

  12. william tele

    william tele Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

    Nov 7, 2009
    Kansas City, MO
    The thing in common I see between Tom Petty and Jerry Garcia is an unquenchable thirst for playing music. There are so many others that display super human ability to go without sleep and nourishment...if it means they can just play one more song.

    We lost one of our regional musical heros a couple years ago. He died on stage doing what he loved. For some of these guys, if you asked them "what would be a perfect exit?" lots would probably say..."Right after the die before the applause does."

  13. Tele1966

    Tele1966 Friend of Leo's

    Jul 30, 2014
    Tom Petty was a drug addict and he died from an overdose.

    Learn a lesson from a guy that's dead.

    Edit to add: It's more important for people currently alive to contemplate their own demise from the use of drugs than it is to honor a dead person.
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2018

  14. Pappy Yokum

    Pappy Yokum Tele-Meister

    Dec 12, 2017
    Chincoteague, VA
    A shame.
    Semi- "self-inflicted", I have to say.

    Re: the hip injury
    How many stoooopid guitar-players make the mistake of jumping around on stage ... jumping off PA speakers ... ala Pete Townsend, doing "windmills" with the picking hand?

    "What price, glory?"

    ~ Pappy ~
    deplorable :cool: pick'r
    alnico357 and viccortes285 like this.

  15. Mike Eskimo

    Mike Eskimo Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

    Nov 9, 2008
    Lesson 1

    Heroin pre-fentanyl was usually survivable.

    Lesson 2

    Fentanyl is nasty, nasty stuff. Cops now do searches , both body and vehicle, wearing masks so they don’t inhale it.

    Lesson 3

    Don’t smoke and/or stop smoking .

    Lesson 4

    If you are in charge , then be in charge. Sometimes that means assuming a position of weakness And disappointing your subordinates in order to preserve yourself.

    Lesson 5

    Tom Petty was a 5 chord rock and roll master who unfortunately fell into drug addiction a couple times in his life . Even without “learning from him” in the incredibly boring and oh so common arena of addiction and excess, many of our lives were made better by his music.

    I’ll honor Tom because I already learned whatever lessons about substance crap I needed or ever will need from my arsehole old man.

    You do whatever the hell you want.
    JayFreddy and viccortes285 like this.

  16. Tele1966

    Tele1966 Friend of Leo's

    Jul 30, 2014
    And you do whatever the hell you want.

    Tom Petty was one person in the billions of people that will live and die. I like his music, but he's just another person, like billions and billions of others that will be.

    Perhaps the Tom Petty OD will persuade one person to not abuse drugs.

  17. dsutton24

    dsutton24 Poster Extraordinaire Gold Supporter

    Dec 29, 2010
    I'm sorry he's dead, nobody should ever die from drug abuse. But, it's hard to feel sorry for somebody who has the wealth and life experience to avoid drugs, or at least get treatment when he has screwed up. These guys aren't victims. At best they're living (and dying) examples of bad judgement.

    Flame on if you need to; I don't care. Painting these guys as victims just takes all personal responsibility out of their own actions, and normalizes stupid, needless death.
    alnico357 and Tele1966 like this.

  18. Mike Eskimo

    Mike Eskimo Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

    Nov 9, 2008

    What I meant to say was : Your opinion of Petty probably has not changed much from last Saturday to this Saturday.

    I mean, come on - heart attack or OD - he's just another person.

    Me dying or you dying ?

    Did you bring joy to millions ?

    I know I didn't.

    He did.

    So, in the tiny sphere of people that like the rock and/or the roll from the last bunch of years ?

    Maybe he is just like you and you are really Eddie Vedder or Paul Weller or Mick Jones or Townshend.

    "Just another person"...:lol:

  19. Tele1966

    Tele1966 Friend of Leo's

    Jul 30, 2014
    Regardless of whatever you think Mike, he was just another person. The exact same worth, just like billions and billions of people.

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