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To much ice pick.

Discussion in 'Just Pickups' started by Hammerdog, Aug 11, 2017.

  1. Hammerdog

    Hammerdog Tele-Meister Ad Free + Supporter

    Age:
    68
    124
    Mar 26, 2016
    Texas
    image.jpeg I put this new harness in this morning. Way to much ice pick in the first and second position even with the tone rolled all the way back or up.
    Is this Black Bee oil and paper causing it? If so can I just remove it without having to use a jumper in place of it.

    Man....I have no idea what the heck I'm doing. Just point me in the right direction and I'll get done.
     

  2. Dacious

    Dacious Friend of Leo's

    Mar 16, 2003
    Godzone
    A .022 will sound pretty thin if you're used to fatter tones. .033 (sort of Strat standard) or .047 (old Tele) would be better. I don't advise just clipping it. What did the seller advertise it as? Can you return it or exchange it? Could be a funky cap, too.
     
    Tonetele likes this.

  3. Hammerdog

    Hammerdog Tele-Meister Ad Free + Supporter

    Age:
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    Mar 26, 2016
    Texas
    It's an .022 and is way thin....it's spot on with the seller, I've done business
    With him in the past. Good people. I'll send him an email. I was hoping for an overnight fix. My local repair shop may have an .047. Yeah I love a fat single coil. I've had a humbucker in that position before. Just didn't sound right.
     

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  5. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Poster Extraordinaire

    Age:
    57
    Mar 2, 2010
    Maine
    It's probably the damn treble bleed making the sound thin.

    A smaller cap (.022 instead of .033 or .047) won't make a thin sound the way a treble bleed adding treble while rolling off mids and bass with the vol pot will indeed make a thin sound.

    It's not like you normally played the Strat with the tone knob rolled all the way back for full mud, right?

    But if your tone controls now do nothing, then there seems to be another problem.

    Hell a treble bleed on a Strat sounds like a nightmare, Strats are thin enough, and rolling back the vol should take off a little treble, not cut bass and add treble, which is what a treble bleed does.
     

  6. Hammerdog

    Hammerdog Tele-Meister Ad Free + Supporter

    Age:
    68
    124
    Mar 26, 2016
    Texas
    I was thinking much the same. The harness came prewired. All I did was
    solder the grounds and pickups to the 5way switch.
    Any idea what else might cause this ? The old harnes had a .033 in it.
    It sounded good.
     

  7. awasson

    awasson Friend of Leo's

    Age:
    53
    Nov 18, 2010
    Vancouver
    Spot on. Exactly what I was thinking when I looked at the photo and read the complaint. I can't imagine needing a treble bleed in a SSS Strat
     
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  8. Hammerdog

    Hammerdog Tele-Meister Ad Free + Supporter

    Age:
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    124
    Mar 26, 2016
    Texas
    Well I think I found the problem. I checked the grounds and referenced
    The drawing Dave sent me. The ground from the trem was soldered to the
    First tone pot. Dave's drawing showed I should have soldered to the volum
    Pot which I corrected. Problem solved. How strange.
    Thanks guys.
    I might still play with the caps and see what I come up with.
     

  9. JD0x0

    JD0x0 Friend of Leo's

    Age:
    27
    Feb 22, 2009
    New York
    lol 22nF sound thin? Are your guitars grounded? 22nF dumps a huge amount of highs to the point I find most of the range is not usable.

    BTW cap doesn't affect tone with the pot on '10' so it's not the 'Snake oil cap'
     

  10. tubejockey

    tubejockey Tele-Meister

    117
    Nov 25, 2015
    the bozone
    The ground at the back of all your pots should be electrically identical. If you moved a ground and all is well, you must have unintentionally changed something else. Thin sounds could be from an out of phase pickup. Or your treble bleed cap if your volume was turned down.
     
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  11. Hammerdog

    Hammerdog Tele-Meister Ad Free + Supporter

    Age:
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    Mar 26, 2016
    Texas
    If I wanted to clip the cap would I need a jumper of some sort ?
     

  12. awasson

    awasson Friend of Leo's

    Age:
    53
    Nov 18, 2010
    Vancouver
    It depends on the situation but generally no. You either have a cap or you leave it open (disconnected). If it's a tone cap, it'll render the control useless.

    The photo clearly shows all potentiometer cases are connected together so changing the point where the trem is grounded would be negligible.

    I highly doubt the problem is the tone cap. It's probably the treble bleed or a short somewhere. If it were me, I'd remove the treble bleed from the circuit and test it out. I'd also record my tests to make sure I am listening objectively to before/after tests.
     
    telemnemonics and Derek Kiernan like this.

  13. Derek Kiernan

    Derek Kiernan Friend of Leo's

    Sep 7, 2008
    Princeton, NJ
    Best bet is removing the treble bleed.
     
    telemnemonics likes this.

  14. Hammerdog

    Hammerdog Tele-Meister Ad Free + Supporter

    Age:
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    Mar 26, 2016
    Texas
    I'm taking the treble bleed out. Yeah the ground thing didn't make much sense to me. But it did help. So the treble bleed is the wish bone shaped
    With the the two dohickies on the volume pot?
     

  15. Hammerdog

    Hammerdog Tele-Meister Ad Free + Supporter

    Age:
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    Mar 26, 2016
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  16. Tonetele

    Tonetele Friend of Leo's

    Jun 2, 2009
    South Australia
    I'd take the treble bleed out as part of the Stratocaster's charm is it's warmth and .022 capacitor is all that's needed.

    Grounding to the volume pot is, IMHO, necessary, so too the bridge, usually where the vibrato strings are and the output jack.
    Any good diagram will show you this as well as often grounding from pot to pot if necessary. Tonerider.com has such diagrams and Seymour Duncan's site as well.
    I'd cover all bases when grounding and have never seen a diagram with a treble bleed for a Strat. Just my $0.02 worth.
     

  17. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Poster Extraordinaire

    Age:
    57
    Mar 2, 2010
    Maine
    I like to solder a thick jumper wire to a pot and ground to that, because I change parts frequently and don't want to cook the pots over and over.

    If moving the bridge ground from one pot to another actually changed the sound, I doubt I could remember exactly what it sounded like before the change to say for certain that some minute change had taken place.

    In amps it can make a difference using a grounding buss instead of having multiple ground paths.

    Putting a jumper where a tone cap was removed will make the tone pot into a vol pot.
    Putting a jumper where the treble bleed was will make the vol pot into a decoration that does nothing AFAIK, but haven't tried it. The treble bleed allows some high end to get back into the signal when the pot grounds off some of the whole spectrum, hence taking away lows and mids but keeping highs. Some players like this for a thin bright rhythm sound.
    Other players prefer the tone get a little darker rather than brighter and thinner as we turn down.

    Another thought, using the tone control to make the bridge pup sound less bright and thin may not work as well as using the amps controls to make the bridge pup sound thicker and fatter, then dealing with the overly bassy neck pickup tone.
     
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  18. Derek Kiernan

    Derek Kiernan Friend of Leo's

    Sep 7, 2008
    Princeton, NJ
    All pots should be grounded, and any acceptable ground will have no tonal effect over any other. If somehow it does change the tone, it was either a poor connection to the previous ground point, or that point is not properly grounded as well. There should be no resistance between any ground points.
     
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