Tinting Poly

Discussion in 'Finely Finished' started by TotallyReptiles, Apr 15, 2013.

  1. TotallyReptiles

    TotallyReptiles Tele-Meister

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    I need some advice from all of you experts out there.

    If I wanted to clear coat a guitar with poly instead of nitro using Mixol tints, what would the best way to go about it?
    I have been trying to research it on the forums but i haven been able to find an answer. A few things I have read were to use Polyacrylic because its water based. So would I use the water based polyacrylic, tinted with Mixol and then once I'm ready, use the Minwax Fast-Drying Polyurethane as the clear or just use the Polyacrylic as the clear? Does the Polyurethane give a just as hard coat as the polyacrylic?

    This all comes from I have a can of the Minwax Fast-Drying Polyurethane. I used this stuff while building a cabinet and I brushed it on and the last few coats i used those pure lambskin pads you can get at HD and it came out perfect. Shiny, smooth and after a few days, hard as a rock. So, I was wondering why couldn't it be that easy with a guitar?
    I wanted to try this technique on one of the guitars I'm building and just wanted some direction or advice from the experts on the best way to color the guitar then coat it.
     
  2. SixShooter

    SixShooter Friend of Leo's

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    Will this be an opaque finish? Is it a refinish or is it a new raw wood body?

    Polycrylic doesn't seem to be crystal clear like polyurethane. Also, I don't like the texture of Polycrylic, so I would top coat it with something. Polyurethane isn't bad but I like Tru Oil much more. I think you could apply Tru Oil over the Polycrylic. As for compatibility of polyurethane with Polycrylic I would ask Minwax.
     
  3. TotallyReptiles

    TotallyReptiles Tele-Meister

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    It wont be opaque. I have a set of Mixol tints and I don't think you can really get an opaque finish with them. But anyway, it wont be opaque but if it dries faster than the nitro and is just as easy to apply, maybe I'll do more.
    It is on a raw wood body made at home with good ol southern pine.
    I would really prefer to have the clear coat be just that, clear. I dont want to use tru oil because of the ambering color it shows.
    I was reading on one of these threads about the polycrylic, thats why i mentioned it. I already have the can of polyurethane, but just cant seem to figure out how to paint the body with the mixol tints.

    I read somewhere this morning, to maybe try mixing the mixol with a denatured alcohol/lacquer thinner mix. I need to find that thread.
    Would that work?
    Once I got the wood prepped and sealed, would that mixture work? the alcohol would evaporate leaving the tint still there? Looks like I might be getting some scrap out and testing it. If that works, then i could just wipe on that poly as i did with the cabinet.
     
  4. TotallyReptiles

    TotallyReptiles Tele-Meister

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    :idea: Just realized something. Why not just mix the polyurethane with the color I want. Spray until the desired color is met, then wipe on the poly as I first explained with the cabinet? For some reason, it just never dawned on me to do that. Spray first then wipe with the same stuff. Geez, is it friday yet?
     
  5. SixShooter

    SixShooter Friend of Leo's

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    Any oil based finish will yellow some. That includes polyurethane.

    You can mix dye with alcohol and spray it. Why not use Transtint dye mixed in water?

    I don't think you can mix those tints or Transtint dyes with oil based finishes.

    I think your best best is dye applied directly to the wood. That's how most people do it if they aren't using lacquer that has been tinted.
     
  6. TotallyReptiles

    TotallyReptiles Tele-Meister

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    But on the Mixol site, it says...
    A binder-free, glycol-based product, Mixol is made for hand mixing and is easily suspended in water, oil or solvent bases. It is perfect for oil-based or latex paint, lacquers, shellacs, Venetian plaster, concrete floor paints, cement, wood putty and wood fillers. Mixol can be used to color radiator paints, epoxy resin paints, polyurethane paints, chlorinated rubber paints and other specialty paints.

    So, it says it can be mixed with polyurethane paints, wonder if that is the same as Minwax Polyurethane. Only way to find out is to test it out.
     
  7. SixShooter

    SixShooter Friend of Leo's

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    I may have mispoken. I know Transtint can't be mixed with oil based finishes. I thought Mixol would be the same. Sorry about that...
     
  8. TotallyReptiles

    TotallyReptiles Tele-Meister

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    No worries. The best way to find out is test on scrap. Ill test it out this week and post my findings.
     
  9. Cat MacKinnon

    Cat MacKinnon Friend of Leo's

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    i've read a few posts online where people couldn't get the Mixol to mix with clear poly. i don't know what type of poly they were using, but it's well worth testing first to make sure it'll work properly.

    also (and this is just my personal opinion), Minwax Polycrylic sucks. it seems to not dry very hard, and water gets through it pretty easily (and i have a coffee table to prove it.) it's pretty much the only Minwax product i've used that i totally hated, and i know a lot of other people that haven't had great results from it either. it's easy to apply and dries fast, but those are about the only good things i can say about it.
     
  10. TotallyReptiles

    TotallyReptiles Tele-Meister

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    Good to know about the polycrylic.
    Just gonna stick to the regular minwax polyurethane. I have a guitar hanging now that was painted with Krylon Sun Yellow. I just loved that yellow color and for $3 a can, couldnt' beat it. I havent had any instances yet with Minwax Nitro and Krylon, but I let the the body hang for at least a week before spraying any nitro on it and then take it slowly with the nitro. So, Im thinking I will make two tests scraps this weekend, one with Mixol and poly and then one with the kyrlon then poly over it to see what we get.
     
  11. SixShooter

    SixShooter Friend of Leo's

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    Is there a reason you're avoiding using nitro?

    I have used nitro over Krylon. Many advise against it but it is possible. The key is to start with super light mist coats of nitro. Let them cure & gas off well between coats.

    http://www.tdpri.com/forum/finely-finished/370512-nitro-over-krylon-possible.html
     
  12. TotallyReptiles

    TotallyReptiles Tele-Meister

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    One reason Im want to use poly, is I want to try it out. I've only used nitro and want to see why so many people hate on it( I cant comment on it until I've tried it, right?).
    The other reason, is I am working on another build for a friend and he prefers the poly over nitro. He just likes that hard shell, always pretty and shiny coat compared to the nitro. And all he plays is loud, distorted metal, so dont really think the tone will be affected at all when he plays.
    So, I wanted to try out the poly and when his is ready for color, i am good to go. I also like the fact that you dont have to wait as long for it to cure.
     
  13. csmatt45

    csmatt45 TDPRI Member

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    Hi there. Maybe this is not possible, but seems easy...
    Couldn't you just use a regular old can of liquid stain with a rag, wipe on, let dry, then use a wipe-on poly to seal and protect?
    Or am I missing something?
     
  14. TotallyReptiles

    TotallyReptiles Tele-Meister

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    I could but i cant seem to find the different colors i like to use. My current project is a neon yellow glam rock of the 80's guitar. And i have a shamrock themed guitar too. So i need a bright yellow stain and a bright green stain.

    Wonder if they have a clearish stain that i could tint with my mixol tints?
     
  15. Colt W. Knight

    Colt W. Knight Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    I would skip the woodworking oil based polyurethane all together, and move onto two part automotive urethane.
     
  16. TotallyReptiles

    TotallyReptiles Tele-Meister

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    I have seen you mention that in other posts. I might need to find a SW around here and check it out. I was wondering about the poly since I already had a can of it.
     
  17. Cat MacKinnon

    Cat MacKinnon Friend of Leo's

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    you can get 2-part catalyzed clear auto poly in spraycans now, including online. a couple things to be aware of though:

    they're expensive, at around $25 a can (not including shipping.) they also contain some incredibly nasty chemicals (worse than nitro), like isocyanates...you absolutely must wear a respirator and be in a well-ventilated area (this goes for most 2-part auto finishes.)

    you only have 24 hours to use the finish. the can is a two-part affair: it's got an inner cylinder full of catalyst, and you press a little nubbin on the bottle of the can to puncture this inner cell and mix the two parts together. once it's mixed, you need to get all your clear coats on in less than a day because the mix will start hardening. anything leftover after 24 hours (or whatever the specific product's time is) is useless.

    the upside is that it'll give you a chance to use a true modern automotive clear, and it's really hard stuff. it'll be completely cured in a day or two, and ready to wet sand and buff. you'll only need a couple coats, since it builds a lot thicker and faster than lacquer, and it'll be more durable. one can should be plenty for a guitar.

    obviously if you've got access to a compressor and basic spray setup, it's better (and cheaper) to get the two parts and mix what you need yourself, as you need it. but if you don't have access to a spray setup, the spraycans could be a very good option as long as you know the downsides.
     
  18. jefrs

    jefrs Doctor of Teleocity

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    The best paints you can get are those for cars. Gosh, they spend a hell of a lot of money developing them. We bend them on a regular basis.
    Go visit your local auto body shop paint supplier, every town seems to have one hidden away in an industrial unit somewhere. Poly-wotsits, urethanes, nitro, polishing, wet'n'dry, sprayers, paint-matching, tints, gloves, masks, lamps, &c, &c.
     
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