Asher Guitars WD Music Products Amplified Parts Mod Kits DIY Nordstarnd Pickups Warmoth.com
Asher Guitars WD Music Products Amplified Parts Mod Kits DIY Nordstarnd Pickups Warmoth.com
Asher Guitars WD Music Products Amplified Parts Mod Kits DIY Nordstarnd Pickups Warmoth.com

Thoughts on this bad-boy?

Discussion in 'Bad Dog Cafe' started by Hendrixlvr, Oct 4, 2017.

  1. Piggy Stu

    Piggy Stu Tele-Afflicted

    Age:
    38
    Feb 26, 2017
    Manchester UK
    I didn't think you said it was valuable: apologies if my reply gave such an impression

    The tone of what I was saying was more 'how can you look past all the alarm bells in the description to even consider it?'

    Tbh I wouldn't recognise a rare prototype, but I do recognise the funny caveated words and hyperbole in the description. I don't mind buying a dog if someone tells me it is a dog and I make an informed decision
     
    Hendrixlvr likes this.

  2. soulgeezer

    soulgeezer Poster Extraordinaire

    Age:
    52
    Nov 5, 2006
    Sinatra's World
    The one in the picture from Reverb has a "Les Paul Model" logo on the headstock. I don't see that on the one from Kijiji, but it could be worn or sanded off, considering the condition of the guitar.

    A little research has shown that there were a variety of SG models over the years that had side-mounted jacks, the majority of them produced by Norlin the late 70s through the early 90s. But, I've seen mention of earlier examples with the jack located there, as well.

    Unfortunately, all of the examples that mention this have the Photobucket picture links blocked. So, I can't see pictures to confirm it.

    The Blue Book of Guitar Values has about 10,000 flavors of SG listed and they don't make mention of jack position, so no joy there.

    But, based on what I've seen, it think it's probably a legitimate model. I just can't find another example to confirm it.

    YMMV, of course.
     
    Hendrixlvr likes this.

  3. Hendrixlvr

    Hendrixlvr Tele-Meister

    Could it possibly be a Prototype ? Hmmmmm lol
     

  4. soulgeezer

    soulgeezer Poster Extraordinaire

    Age:
    52
    Nov 5, 2006
    Sinatra's World
    Highly, HIGHLY unlikely. Just a cheap Junior that’s been messed with, that’s all.

    Can you ask the seller for the serial number? That should give us a year, at least, and would really help narrowing things down.
     

  5. Hendrixlvr

    Hendrixlvr Tele-Meister

    He says the serial number is
    677343
     

  6. soulgeezer

    soulgeezer Poster Extraordinaire

    Age:
    52
    Nov 5, 2006
    Sinatra's World
    And, the sources fail yet again...

    According to four different sources, that serial number is legit and places the guitar in the years 1970-1972 or 1974-1975. So, a five year range... Nice, eh?

    I hate Gibson serial numbers!
     
    Hendrixlvr likes this.

  7. Hendrixlvr

    Hendrixlvr Tele-Meister

    Yea I came up with multiple dates too, but from my research the sg jr as only made till 1971, so one of those dates is right lol
     

  8. Southpole

    Southpole Tele-Meister

    473
    Apr 10, 2014
    WellingtonNZ
    I’ve had that experience. You ask too many questions and suddenly the listing disappears. I’ve never purchased a vintage guitar. Just don’t really know enough to avoid being ripped off. But tempting options always keep coming up. It’s a high risk decision for anyone not an expert.
     
    Piggy Stu likes this.

  9. LowCaster

    LowCaster Tele-Meister

    Age:
    45
    434
    Jan 24, 2011
    Paris, France
    I looked at this yesterday. Let's just look at the facts (having noted that the seller's speech is suspect):


    -The project Guitar Dater (not a perfect source) says that SN 677343 is from 1970, 1971 or 1972 (or until 1975 according to Soulgeezer)

    -There is a volute on the back of the neck: it is another pointer towards the 70's (found from 1969 to 1981 according to guitarhq.com)

    -The light / natural / non-black headstock is remarkable.

    -Cutaways without bevel

    -The case bears the name of Travis Bean (deceased), a luthier who could be responsible for a personalized work / mod back in the 70's.

    -The gold paint is not original: lol:

    -There is another guitar similar to this one (Reverb pic) with the exception of painting.


    These first four points remind of the SG 100, a cheap model designed to replace the Melody Maker (also SG shaped) around 1971 and short lived ... As you can see it on some photos and the catalog of Gibson below (1972 ). There is the SG 200 and a few others that are close but less likely.


    [​IMG]

    This leaves us with three options:

    -The headstock and body shape are real, the guitar is born as an SG 100 (or something close) and converted into a SG jr lookalike by a luthier

    -Everything (except paint) is real, unknown model rare / prototype

    -Everything is fake. It is a Japanese clone of the 70s



    You should do a poll. ;)
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2017

  10. Hendrixlvr

    Hendrixlvr Tele-Meister

    Lol! Great points. I have no clue how to do a poll haha
     

  11. Piggy Stu

    Piggy Stu Tele-Afflicted

    Age:
    38
    Feb 26, 2017
    Manchester UK
    I love your logical dissection of this, it reminds me of a law exam, but people who haven't really seen the evidence voting won't produce the truth, just an opinion. The vendor hasn't helped himself with his hyperbole, because I suspect most people here would see through it and consider him guilty - but his salesmanship doesn't prove or disprove anything

    Truth is I do not trust the seller, but cannot in fairness judge the guitar which may or may not be sincere. The fact it has seemingly lost its pickup, had a new one out in a different node, then had a pretend gold top relic job on it means this poor unspeaking innocent cannot get a fair trial

    Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, I beg of you: don't condemn this poor innocent mute! It did nothing to itself, and hasn't told us a lie
     

  12. LowCaster

    LowCaster Tele-Meister

    Age:
    45
    434
    Jan 24, 2011
    Paris, France
    :)
    I see the guitar as a victim.
     
    Piggy Stu likes this.

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