Asher Guitars WD Music Products Amplified Parts Mod Kits DIY Nordstarnd Pickups Warmoth.com
Asher Guitars WD Music Products Amplified Parts Mod Kits DIY Nordstarnd Pickups Warmoth.com
Asher Guitars WD Music Products Amplified Parts Mod Kits DIY Nordstarnd Pickups Warmoth.com

This Is Awfully Strange....

Discussion in 'Tele-Technical' started by soulman969, Mar 3, 2012.

  1. Sandia Man

    Sandia Man Tele-Meister

    430
    Nov 17, 2009
    Albuquerque, NM
    It's good to know when to quit. Best of luck with the luthier, I hope he can tell you what was wrong
     

  2. Ricky D.

    Ricky D. Poster Extraordinaire

    Age:
    66
    Oct 22, 2006
    Garner, North Carolina
    Good plan!
     

  3. pchilson

    pchilson Friend of Leo's

    Age:
    59
    Aug 23, 2007
    Arkansas
    Soulman, you ever get this sorted?
     

  4. soulman969

    soulman969 Telefied Ad Free Member

    Mar 20, 2011
    Englewood, CO
    Well for those who guessed that the switch might have been the problem they may be correct. I took the guitar to a luthier friend of mine and the wiring checks out so we're putting a new switch in and I should know in another day or two for certain exactly what caused the problem if that's the case.

    It still seems strange since the continuity looked fine to me when I checked it but with as many times as I went over things sometimes something is staring you straight in the face and you just don't see it.

    Since there was another poster who was also having some problems wiring in a 4-way I suppose there's always a chance that some defective parts got out but I won't attribute it to that until I know for certain. I should have a solid answer by mid week after I get the guitar back and go over everything with him.
     

  5. soulman969

    soulman969 Telefied Ad Free Member

    Mar 20, 2011
    Englewood, CO
    Just an update for the still curious. The CVC comes home on Friday hopefully fully functional with Keystones and 4-way installed all setup and ready to go. My tech and I will go over whatever he found wrong on Friday morning and I should be able to give you all of the scoop about it later on Friday.

    If it is the switch as he suspected he and I will go over that little SOB with a fine tooth comb until he can show me exactly where the failure came from. He's thinking it failed due to damage from too much heat but I just don't see that possibility. It never worked right from the start and if I'd damaged it on the original install it why did it pass a continuity check after I removed it the first time?

    At least I'll have the guitar working as it should and I'll have the old switch back which I'm thinking of either having it DNA tested to see if it's organic or mailing it to Rome to see if they can verify demonic possession. So far the explanations still don't fit the facts.
     

  6. Gary in Boston

    Gary in Boston Friend of Leo's

    Apr 17, 2003
    WALTHAM MA
    Maybe too late now but whenever I venture into the mod zone I take photos of the way things were before I changed them so I can always get back to normal.

    For the future?

    Gary
     

  7. Verne Bunsen

    Verne Bunsen Tele-Holic

    849
    Nov 29, 2008
    Sonoran Desert
    Thanks for the updates, I'm still keeping an eye on this thread!
     

  8. soulman969

    soulman969 Telefied Ad Free Member

    Mar 20, 2011
    Englewood, CO
    Believe it or not Gary I have 7 different guitars and basses right now but not one digital camera, LOL. As it stands I have no ability to document my work to compare it as I progress. It's also the reason why I can't post any photos of my herd. Guess you can tell where my priorities lie huh? :D
     

  9. soulman969

    soulman969 Telefied Ad Free Member

    Mar 20, 2011
    Englewood, CO
    Verne my friend tells me the metal hub of the switch was coming loose from the circular delrin portion of that hub on the inside of the switch. Visually it looked fine outside and the wiper appeared to be making proper contact but apparently it was not or at least not in all positions all of the time which explains the selector problems. Rather than trying to repair the switch to make it work or take a chance on it failing intermittently it made more sense to just replace it.

    How or why we don't seem to know exactly. It doesn't appear to have been damaged from installing it and it may have been defective from the get go but there's really no way of telling for certain now. The fact that a couple of other posters have experienced the same or similar issue all within this last few weeks to a month tells me there's a chance some defective switches got out but there's no way of being certain of that from my experience. It just seems that two or three of us having a similar problem at the same time is more than just a coincidence.

    One hot wire may have been shorted against another lug as well but that seemed less likely to him than the switch being bad. I'll have it back tomorrow and have a chance to go over all of it with him then but based upon what I know right now it seems the switch was the culprit and not the wiring.
     

  10. sjtalon

    sjtalon Poster Extraordinaire Ad Free Member

    Don't buy any lotto tickets, your luck sucks.


    :lol:
     

  11. soulman969

    soulman969 Telefied Ad Free Member

    Mar 20, 2011
    Englewood, CO
    LOL. With my luck if I had a winning ticket in that Mega Million Lotto then 453,597 other people would have had the same ticket and we'd have to split it.:(
     

  12. Sandia Man

    Sandia Man Tele-Meister

    430
    Nov 17, 2009
    Albuquerque, NM
    It was that pesky switch after all!
     

  13. soulman969

    soulman969 Telefied Ad Free Member

    Mar 20, 2011
    Englewood, CO
    Based on what Joe tells me yeah. I guess from here on in I'll order switches in twos and then I'll always have a spare just in case without having to tear another guitar apart to troubleshoot.

    The problem wasn't showing up visually on the exterior of the switch and looking into the interior with my tired old eyes even with readers didn't reveal anything to me. It may have been that way to begin with but there's no way to establish that so now I have almost as much in switches into it as I do pickups LOL.

    Like I said sometimes it just takes a fresh set of eyes, hands, and ideas to solve a problem. Now at least I get it back 100% functional and all setup ready to go. It's not as much about solving every problem in life yourself as it is about knowing where to go to get them solved period.

    Next step is to let everyone know what I think of a Keystone equipped CVC.
     

  14. Bubbalou

    Bubbalou Tele-Meister

    284
    Feb 28, 2012
    Euless, Texas
    That is so very true! At work when troubleshooting a problem with a design I made a fresh set of eyes quickly spotted what my "old tired eyes" missed each time.
    Looking forward to your Keystone review.
     

  15. tfsails

    tfsails Friend of Leo's

    Oct 11, 2010
    Richmond VA
    Glad to see that you found the problem. Sounds (pun intended) like several of us were closing in on the right track. I know you'll enjoy your four-way as much as I do mine. Matter of fact, I think I'll go play mine now!
     

  16. soulman969

    soulman969 Telefied Ad Free Member

    Mar 20, 2011
    Englewood, CO
    Well the CVC is back guys but I think there's more to it than I thought. I need to pull the control panel and look at the wiring Joe did and diagram it but suffice to say even with a new switch the Seymour Duncan and Acme Wiring Diagrams did not produce the expected results.

    In a few hours I'll have some time to pop the hood and take a gander at how it is wired and diagram it. It's not done in either of the two more traditional ways, those being B/N Series in Pos.#4 at the top of the selector (As per Acme Diagram) or B/N Series in the middle Pos.#3 (As per Seymour Duncan Diagram). B/N is in Pos.#1 at the very bottom of the selector (As per Acme Diagram).

    So the current pickup sequence as per an Acme Diagram is Pos#1=B/N Series, Pos#2=Bridge Only, Pos#3=B/N Parallel, Pos#4=Neck only. In other words the series position is at the very bottom of the selector as opposed to the top. Interesting huh?

    I'll post more later on as far as what he found with the switch.
     

  17. Bubbalou

    Bubbalou Tele-Meister

    284
    Feb 28, 2012
    Euless, Texas
    What I find interesting is Series Pos. #1 followed by Pos. #2 Bridge. I was thinking you could just turn the switch around until I saw that. :eek:

    After you play it a while, let us know what you think of the Keystones.
     

  18. soulman969

    soulman969 Telefied Ad Free Member

    Mar 20, 2011
    Englewood, CO
    Yeah, it's not just a matter of it being "in reverse order". It's a "reshuffled order". It's like you took Pos.#4 moved it to Pos. #1 and moved every other position one notch to the north.

    From an intuitive standpoint I like it. All three solo position are now right next to another. If I'm soloing the just the bridge it's just one step back to the combo in series and one step up to the combo in parallel.

    So far the Keystones sound great but the biggest difference I can tell without doing an A/B/C with the others is that they have a higher output than the Nocasters and a much higher output than Alnico V's. A little smoother than the Nocaster too I believe but not as much as the Alnico V's.

    Just first impressions though. I haven't has much time to play around with it tonight as I thought I would. I'll have more time tomorrow. :D
     

  19. Bubbalou

    Bubbalou Tele-Meister

    284
    Feb 28, 2012
    Euless, Texas
    How do you find the tone of the B/N in series as compared to parallel and the other's?
     

  20. soulman969

    soulman969 Telefied Ad Free Member

    Mar 20, 2011
    Englewood, CO
    I'll have to listen closer tomorrow Bubbalou when I compare all of them to one another but my basic impression is that the B/N series sounds better with the Keystones than with the other two. Very smooth and creamy yet not muddy or undefined. Kind of a smoky bluesy tone I would call it.

    Major difference when compared to the B/N parallel which is far more open sounding and spanks a lot more. The balance or blend between the bridge and neck is excellent. Neither over powering the other. Bridge solo bites, not too harsh, twangy, but not as much as a Nocaster.

    The most noticeable difference is in the neck pickup. Hard to describe as of yet. I think I like the neck only in the others bit more but again all of this is first impressions.

    I'll say this much for the Keystones. 1) they have to be the quietest single coils I've ever played 2) when you hear them you know you're hearing something different in a Tele pickup. To me they have a very unique tonality to them.

    Based on what Bill Lawrence and other seem to say I think it's because they're designed to be very transparent so I think they may well sound a bit different on different guitars. They probably transmit the character of the other components better than a pickup that colors it's tonality more.

    I know one thing. They sound very nice on this CVC. Well worth the investment which is actually quite little considering their quality.
     

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