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The World Hates Runners

Discussion in 'Bad Dog Cafe' started by boris bubbanov, Aug 10, 2017.

  1. boris bubbanov

    boris bubbanov Telefied Ad Free Member

    There's a flim clip out there, where a woman walks into a runner, and he reflexively pushes off and she falls like a doll, dangerously close to a bus that's just stupidly close to where people are walking.

    1) Why is a bus passing like this within inches of people? I know things are crowded in the UK, but this is crazy having people and buses routinely so close together, no?

    2) Why do we blame the woman whose using her phone so intently she falls into a fountain, 100% all her fault, but the woman who walks into a runner - she's 0% at fault?

    3) If you live in a crowded city, don't you have an affirmative obligation to yourself to be aware of your surroundings and not to walk too close to buses or others when a runner/bicycle/wheelchair/pram is approaching?

    I think the #1 thing the runner did wrong, was to try and skip out. He needed to stop and go back and render assistance to this woman. He was a coward and fool, not because she fell, but because an accident had occurred and he needed to prevent further harm to her or others.

    Years and years ago, some idiot parked his car partially in his driveway and partially on the sidewalk in the path of the runners, and the vehicle had a radio aerial that protruded out well past the end of the car into the path of passers by, and he turned off all his house lights as well. I ran face first into the aerial and thought I would lose my eye as the aerial gouged my eye, and I reflexively reached up to protect myself and the aerial got totaled. I went to the doctor the next day, got the all clear, and then I went to the Mazda dealer and got a quote on a new aerial and went over to settle up with the guy.

    I've talked to 20 people and everyone is in lockstep, the woman is an angel and the runner is a criminal (and would be even had he stopped to help)

    Does society really hate runners this much? I mean, it has been years since I did any "urban running". Based on the reactions I saw here, I'm reluctant to advise my nephews and niece to run anywhere anyone else is present or could be present. Sounds like the runner is a guarantor of the safety of everyone else.

    Or is this a textbook example where the observer identifies so strongly with the woman that Passion takes over and they can only see the event through the eyes of this woman or this woman's mother or husband? Wow, if you ever had any uncertainty about the observational abilities of the average person, this should really resolve that once and for all.
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2017

  2. Stratohacker

    Stratohacker Tele-Holic

    Apr 18, 2013
    In the video if you watch the runners path it looks like he moves towards the woman instead of away. She is walking with her head up. The runner pushes her. The bus is traveling in the bus lane.

    I don't think the world hates runners, maybe just ass hats that do stuff like this.


  3. chiefline

    chiefline Tele-Holic

    Mar 18, 2014
    new jersey
    I run every day but at 4 AM so I don't have to deal with the haters out there.
    rcole_sooner likes this.

  4. chiefline

    chiefline Tele-Holic

    Mar 18, 2014
    new jersey
    Yeah he almost killed that poor woman
    Crashbelt, Uncle Bob, stinkey and 2 others like this.

  5. uriah1

    uriah1 Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

    Feb 12, 2011
    I think the world disdains bike riders more.
    Maricopa, studio1087, Mr BC and 7 others like this.

  6. boris bubbanov

    boris bubbanov Telefied Ad Free Member

    OK. So why the bus traveling there?

    I think ya'll know, I spent decades handling injury claims for regular sorts of people. We had to be on the lookout for fraudsters. Meaning, people who would place themselves in the path of someone else at the last possible milisecond, and do a fraudfall when the other party made contact with them, and they fell injured to the ground in a way that might make a professional soccer player very impressed.

    And anyway, this is my cynical perspective when that woman fell in that way. Are we saying her head was up but her eyes were closed? The guy wasn't that big - are there people out there in a heavily congested city with their guard down that low?

    I'm looking (from my perspective) at observations by people who are trying their best to see things clearly, but I've intervened too late - the well is hopelessly poisoned. But this is a useful wake up call for me. I sometimes forget I don't always see things in the same innocent way other younger at heart people do. Call it burn out; call it what you will.
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2017

  7. brookdalebill

    brookdalebill Telefied Ad Free Member

    Nov 15, 2009
    Austin, Tx
    I was raised to be considerate.
    My parents taught us to consider the safety and feelings of others around us.
    It's appalling to me that someone would callously endanger someone's life like that.
    I saw in the news that the police have arrested a suspect.

  8. boris bubbanov

    boris bubbanov Telefied Ad Free Member

    I'm glad the guy was apprehended.

    He wasn't doing himself a single bit of good, trying to dodge this. He would be found, and if he wasn't, he'd just have been in limbo and his life would be all screwed up.

    See, I'm getting all concerned for the guy because in the USA, they might effectively lynch the guy. But, of what I know of UK law, they'll probably barely slap his wrist. Assuming, that is, that the woman has no actual injury of moment. That's one of things about falling like a doll - provided you don't strike your head, you might be injured less than if you throw your arms out to break your fall.

    And meanwhile, that bus will continue to pass within inches of the pedestrians and nothing will change. Not even when the next person falls next to the passing behemoth.

  9. boris bubbanov

    boris bubbanov Telefied Ad Free Member

    This is why while I loved riding racing bikes, I never could stand to ride in a peloton. And when I ran big organized footraces, I found a protected out of the way spot to wait until the worst of the throng passed, before getting out on the course and getting around to covering the distance.

    First, I wanted to be considerate, as I was raised. But two, when someone falls, I don't want to be anywhere near them - I'd rather arrive after the fact and help them then.

  10. suave eddie

    suave eddie Tele-Holic

    Feb 28, 2009
    Great White North
    I don't see the film clip anything like you described. I don't see the woman walk into the runner. What I see is a runner go out of his way to intentionally push a woman walking on the path into the street for no apparent reason. I honestly don't see how you can watch that video and describe it the way you did. "a woman walks into a runner, and he reflexively pushes off". No way.
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2017

  11. Piggy Stu

    Piggy Stu Friend of Leo's

    Feb 26, 2017
    He was the person moving at speed and ran into another's path. I take that as his fault to start with. Any running I do would cut around walkers

    Even if she did step into his path, common decency means when you knock a person on the ground that you stop

    In some ways I can understand him running off more when it seems she might die, from blind panic, but it isn't clear to me that he knew her life might be lost

    Imagine it was your mother he knocked over. Would you be happy that he didn't stop, even if she HAD walked in his path?

  12. Obsessed

    Obsessed Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

    Nov 21, 2012
    I was a runner for about 15 years and only ran "urban" on business trips. As a runner approaches a pedestrian, you each typically move a bit to the sides, but sometimes I would think the ped is going one direction, but changes direction at the last second, so this "push" to me is an accidental collision. That said, I think the runner is at fault since he is running instead of walking and didn't slow down or give the deserved right of way to the ped. He is definitely guilty for not stopping to assist. As a very enthusiastic cyclist, the exact same thing can happen (and does). Again, the ped has the right of way. I always ride my bike on the street just to avoid these kinds of issues and typically ran on trails.

    In this case the sidewalk seems plenty wide. I don't think it is about hating runners, just jerks.

  13. boris bubbanov

    boris bubbanov Telefied Ad Free Member

    Why not imagine this woman was a career criminal, who smothered all her children? Why imagine she was someone's mother?

    Just an academic question here, but do you think you can ever get an objective result if you identify one party or the other as your loved one?

    See what I'm saying? Once it is you Mom, she can do no wrong, and even if she did wrong, you could never see it.
    ac15 likes this.

  14. Sconnie

    Sconnie Tele-Holic

    May 1, 2017
    Denver, CO
    First of all that guy shouldn't be running on concrete, that's terrible for your joints (more so than running already is).

    Second of all there was no one else on the sideWALK except that lady, so if he wants to run there (which is totally inappropriate) he should have no problem keeping to the proper side, the left side, since it's England after all.

    If they nabbed the right chap he'll get what's coming to him!
    RomanS and Piggy Stu like this.

  15. boris bubbanov

    boris bubbanov Telefied Ad Free Member

    I'd love to see supplemental imaging of this event. I readily admit, I'm assigning myself a huge handicap against a bit of film that seems to really get under the skin of the average observer. I'm trying to decide what this woman could have done to make a middle aged runner suddenly become a crazy man. I want to assume he is in the clear until some explanation for why he'd act out, is offered. And we don't have that.

    A trained observer never assigns to malice what can be explained by stupidity or some other cause. I'm just thinking about all the running I did, and all the runners I've observed, over decades and decades and I never once saw someone go out of their way while running to knock down a pedestrian. I've seen runners injure themselves trying to avoid walkers and bikes, and I've seen runners and bikes collide with one another, and runners and skaters run into one another and runners run head on into one another, and accidental contact between runners and those walking.

    Why is the human brain so certain it sees a runner, without provocation, go out of his way to harm a stranger on foot? When we say "I couldn't unsee that" there sure is truth there.
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2017

  16. Piggy Stu

    Piggy Stu Friend of Leo's

    Feb 26, 2017
    you chose to characterise her as a person at fault for walking viewing a phone. I myself don't know how you know that, but I thought if you imagined it to be a person whom you consider didn't merit knocking on the floor then you might have a different view. I don't think any man or woman should be knocked on the floor like that unless it is to stop crime or apprehend them

    I don't think pedestrians are angels and joggers evil, but I think the universal disgust at the man suggests you are on the wrong side of public opinion. If you think it is fine to barrel into a woman, knock her under an oncoming bus, and keep up your jogging pace, then me and you have different beliefs of decent behaviour

    You know there has been an arrest for this incident? How many people do you think are going to be in support of such behaviour?

    If the bus driver hadn't swerved I think this guy would have been charged with unlawful act manslaughter - or whatever this might now be called since English homicide law was codified
    Steve Holt and Mid Life Crisis like this.

  17. kelnet

    kelnet Telefied Ad Free Member

    Apr 17, 2008
    Port Moody, BC
    There's a bus lane, a sidewalk, and a running/cycling lane. The woman was in the running/cycling lane. The runner clearly took exception to that and shoved her. He's a total dick and deserves whatever sentencing will come his way.

    The bus lane is close to the sidewalk, but no closer than other roads where traffic is close to the sidewalk. Our bus lanes here are adjacent to the sidewalk, and in some parts of downtown, the sidewalks are quite crowded and people come very close to getting hit by mirrors.
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2017

  18. Piggy Stu

    Piggy Stu Friend of Leo's

    Feb 26, 2017
    Pretty sure that is all footpath: what looks like a coloured division is shadow from the bridge handrail. See it wobble out further on

    I'm not sure it is an intentional shove. Maybe he went over on his ankle. Maybe he barely touched her, but she was imbalanced and fell easily. Maybe he never imagined he bumped her so hard

    We don't know, in truth, but if I was forced to bet, he knew she fell over after he bumped her

    I know a lot of people like that
    Uncle Bob likes this.

  19. Old Tele man

    Old Tele man Friend of Leo's

    May 10, 2017
    Tucson, AZ
    To each their own: UK rules are not same as USA rules.
    boris bubbanov likes this.

  20. boris bubbanov

    boris bubbanov Telefied Ad Free Member

    To some extent, this thread will not work if someone does not advocate for the Devil. We could all organize a lynch mob and just go and resolve this matter quickly, if we're going with the flow on this media story.

    I'm providing some critical analysis because IMO you folks over there have a problem here on your hands and you refuse to address it. From a Human Factors perspective, I think you have an inherently unsafe arrangement here and you're turning a blind eye to it. If you're correct, that but for the heroic actions of the bus driver, this woman is dead, doesn't that tell you on its face, this UK community is taking unnecessary chances with people's lives?

    Yeah, I know, I'm inclined to often complain that people work too hard to create a 100% risk free society, but in this set of circumstances, my gut tells me that ya'll have been relying on luck far too heavily here.

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