The circle of 4ths, both of them

Discussion in 'Tab, Tips, Theory and Technique' started by ASATKat, May 19, 2019.

  1. ASATKat

    ASATKat Tele-Afflicted

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    The crazy thing is we study the circle of 5ths and play the circle of 4ths.

    Starting on C the circle of 4ths moves in perfect 4ths through all 12 notes,

    C F Bb Eb Ab Db F# B E A D G C

    Do you see the word bead used twice, those two words B E A D and Bb Eb Ab Db use 8 of the 12 notes, that leaves only 4 notes to learn. It doesn't jump out at you in 5ths order, D E A B doesn't roll off the tongue lol, and we don't play much in circle of 5th, it's like paddling upstream.
    Hey Joe is a good example of using the circle of 5ths, but by far 4ths are the way we go, it's the whole tension/release thing.

    You can also play a diatonic circle of 4ths,
    C F B E A D G C
    C F Bdim Em Am Dm G C
    or
    Cmaj7 Fmaj7 Bm7b5 Em7 Am7 Dm7 G7

    I see all these tension/release moves here.
    C to F creates tension.
    G7 to C is that sense of release or resolution, the V7 to I move.

    Play the progression and see how totally "song friendly" it is.

    In summary,

    Circle of 5ths go to the right,,,
    Circle of 4ths go to the left and is more musical. It's the way chords like to progress.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2019
    Sev112 and ScribbleSomething like this.
  2. kbold

    kbold Tele-Meister Silver Supporter

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    Good stuff. This is why the circle of fifths is so correct - it works both ways.

    Shows how the B diminished chord can resolve:
    - either to C (directly or via F) i.e. to the Major
    - or to Am (directly or via Em) i.e. to the relative Minor
     
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  3. gtroates

    gtroates Tele-Meister

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    I like to think of the circle of fifths as a windup spring kitchen timer device: wind it to the right and it counts down to zero by unwinding to the left. Start at C, wind two clicks to the right and you get a ii V I (D, G, C). Wind it up four clicks to the right of any starting point and you get a iii vi ii V I progression (in Eb: G, C, F, Bb, Eb). In classical theory this movement is called “backcycling” as it starts at a point in the circle and goes leftwards. I grew up as a young child practicing violin with a windup kitchen timer to make sure I practiced a certain amount of time each day, I’m used to the “windup to the right unwind to the left” motion of my mom’s old kitchen timer. I guess it’s the “righty tighty, lefty loosey” thing we all know with screwdrivers and truss rods.
     
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  4. monkeybanana

    monkeybanana Tele-Meister

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    Be a rebel and go both ways. Start with one chord, say G, go left and grab C, then grab the next chord to the right from the first chord which is D. And you get and roll! I IV V :)
     
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  5. ASATKat

    ASATKat Tele-Afflicted

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    What happen to the word rock? Ok, what did you do with the word rock?
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2019
  6. schmee

    schmee Poster Extraordinaire

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    Circle of 4ths played backwards is the circle of 5th's....
     
  7. Larry F

    Larry F Doctor of Teleocity Vendor Member

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    You can also specify the direction the interval, so that C F Bb Eb... is an ascending circle of 4ths and a descending circle of 5ths.
     
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  8. ndcaster

    ndcaster Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

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    just to visualize:

    43212345
    GABCDEFG

    any feeling of movement or 'resolution' depends on the harmonic environment

    imo, the V-I feeling of resolution, at least in major, comes from the leading-tone being just a half-step away from the tonic -- if the bass moves to the tonic, that leading-tone 'wants' to move that short half-step to the tonic as well

    and the even stronger feeling of resolution of V7-I comes from that leading-tone resolution combined with the additional wanting of the minor-seventh (in F: Eb) to resolve down a short half-step to the major third of the tonic chord (E)

    I like to think that, like electrons, half-steps are unstable in their orbits
     
  9. BigDaddyLH

    BigDaddyLH Telefied Ad Free Member

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    Jazz: Am7 Dm7 G7 CMaj7 = Descending by fifths/ascending by fourths, call it what you like.
    Rock (Hey Joe): C G D A E... = Descending by fourths/ascending by fifths, call it what you like.
     
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  10. blowtorch

    blowtorch Telefied Ad Free Member

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    i have no idea what you guys are talking about, and i'm pretty sure I don't wanna know
     
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  11. BigDaddyLH

    BigDaddyLH Telefied Ad Free Member

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    One direction is great taste, the other direction is less filling.
     
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  12. P Thought

    P Thought Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

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    Stupid question: should I commit the circle of fourths and fifths to memory?
     
  13. klasaine

    klasaine Poster Extraordinaire

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    Yes/No.
    You should understand and be able to see 'the circle' (or wheel) in your head ... and then preferably hear it in your head.
     
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  14. Keefsdad

    Keefsdad Tele-Meister

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    i understand what it is, but have no idea how to apply it.
     
  15. beagle

    beagle Friend of Leo's

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    You may, I never have.
     
  16. P Thought

    P Thought Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

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    Right now I kind of see it in wedges, one on each side of my key note or chord. With the relative minors on the inside, I see my 4, 1, and 5 on top, and the 2, 6, and 3 on the inside. I do without the 7 a lot of the time, but I think it's there handy, too, on the inside to the right. . . .
     
  17. BigDaddyLH

    BigDaddyLH Telefied Ad Free Member

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    [​IMG]
     
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  18. ASATKat

    ASATKat Tele-Afflicted

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    You've never played a song that use chord movement in 4ths?
     
  19. P Thought

    P Thought Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

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    :lol: Not knowingly. I've been working at it, but my ignorance is still deep and wide.
     
  20. ASATKat

    ASATKat Tele-Afflicted

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    Well, most songs use movements of 4ths, that means just play the song and analyze it later, you will "circle movement" stuff.

    In C, C to F is a 4th, G back to C is a 4th. That is probably the most popular usage right there, I to IV and V to I.
     
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