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Discussion in 'Music to Your Ears' started by Blazer, Sep 22, 2017.
I can't think of a worse song than Revolution No 9.
I think those 2 were incredible egomaniacs. But they were not afraid to criticize each other. When they were apart, people were afraid to be critical, letting them kind of write in an unchallenged manner. At one point I remember that Elvis Costello was involved with a McCartney project (I forget what one) and remember thinking-This makes so much sense. Finally someone to kick Sir Paul's behind! I don't think it ever really materialized.
I've always enjoyed the music of the Byrds. However, I think their biggest stinker was Mind Gardens from
the LP Younger Than Yesterday. The rest of their recorded output was great, I don't see how this one slipped past.
As I recall from the time it was released, drugs helped. Not bad as an experimental piece, but it sure wasn't rock 'n' roll.
Even Crosby has criticized "Mind Gardens." Maybe his revenge for them not putting "Triad" on an album?
The Grateful Dead had a song called "Day Job" that was so panned by the fans that they quit playing it. And it never even made it to an album.
You and John Lennon really dislike that one.
My #1 favorite album of all time. I love every weird second of it.
Regarding the Beatles, I find it very likely that the american audiences can at times find them a tad trite, and almost silly. I understand that. Most English bands around that time, Kinks included, always had a flair with the - very British - Music Hall tradition, in which you just had to have silly doggerels, that the audience could sing along to. Paul was the Beatles's "music-hallerer" (!?).
I mean, the "Obladi oblada", "Honey pie", "Martha my dear", and even "Penny Lane" and "When I am 64", some of these NOVELTY tinged songs where just a joke or a nod, even tribute to the british Music Hall tradition. The CAMPY parts of it all! You can sift through all of Queens albums too, and there's at least one one every album maybe except the first two. And I don't really know how to differ "filler" material from stinkers of those british bands. I those days, you'd record anything and you just put it out. Paul definitely carried on this music-hall tradition when going solo, and lo and behold even in his Wings days. In those days, you just had to create "b-sides" for singles and made sure they werent as great as the a-side.
The most AND worst Music Hall tradition rock band, was (still are) actually an American one. Also in the 70s. Everyone in the US put a deaf ear onto them, and then all of a sudden the two brothers moved to Britain, and hit a home run. And they got loads of stinkers. Guess which ones! Christ, I know of bands that are all stinkers, as well as music styles, that has been very very famous.
I could even go on at the intelligent progressive era of the Canterbury scene. Bands like Caravan, Soft Machine, and yeah you know the lot. Gong, especially. Even - lo and behold - Genesis had some very very quirky and strange stinkers even when Peter Gabriel was in it. It was to, sort of, take away the pretentiousness of the longer epic pieces they churned out. "Harold The Barrel" anyone?
Peter Gabriels first album - "Excuse Me" anyone?
I have a fondness for a lot of that stuff and I've been enjoying some videos of those two American brothers recently! But I have to draw the line when it comes to ELP's Benny the Bouncer.
Yes, one on the album. Benny the bouncer. Ha ha... but actually it worked the other way around. Greg Lake thought that they shouldn't do his "Lucky Man" a song that he wrote when he was 12, or something. He thought THAT was a stinker. It turned out a monster hit for them. And he didn't think "Benny The Bouncer" was a stinker.
There you go. Everyones perception of a stinker is another ones gem. Simple as that.
I do have a soft spot for these things, but as a 2 minute "break" or "wtf" on ONE album of any of these bands are enough, I started to cringe when the second one came up, and was longer than 3 minutes. I've even heard people thinking of "Stairway To Heaven" as a stinker. My stinker with Led is "your time's gonna come" or whatever it was called.
Nope, I am with you on both, but there are other Police songs I hate more (De Doo Doo Doo, De Da Da Da and Invisible Sun, among others).
The first time I heard that awful "honey pie" thing, the first thing that crossed my mind was that they already made their statement, so they could pretty much write the worst crap in the world and they'd still be rich.
I love the album but what I love more about it is the fact that they released it. The biggest band in the world, that every girl still screamed over, and they still said "Sod it!" and put out a record with Revolution 9 on it. And also the fact that not just the band themselves but George Martin was happy to put his name to it.
The thing is, that I think we are re-assessing and judging all these stinkers by the monstrosity and gargantual fame of those bands. If it was some underground band - like - yeah, "Velevet Underground" that had released "Revolution 9" no one would lift an eyebrow. Or even early, or mid period Pink Floyd. Or any obscure cult band at that time, say King Crimson, Frank Zappa, or Captain Beefheart. John and Yoko did hammer their stance down with that "piano" concert in New York stating that people liked their music just because of they were famous, and sat and banged they keys for like 45 minutes, to a sold out audience. People were in uproar. They themselves werent that unaware of these things that "stinkers" occurs.
I e the more famous any artists are, the more the audience demands them to weed out the stinker material, and fillers, and "experimental" or avant garde on records. Speaking of Velvet Underground, Lou Reed did just that with his career suicide album "Metal Machine Music" and then people didn't care less about the rest of the albums he'd put out, because you never knew what it was. The more an artist is obsure, the more we allow more "Revolution 9's"...
I do thing that if time chews a great deal into one or two of the songs, time is a perfect measure of what or which songs evolves into stinkers. I don't think some of Frank Zappas more sexist and rude lyrics would stand a chance today, and frankly (ha!) some of them were already some kind of bigot, and macho in those days, his humor notwithstanding. It is very hard to make parody or ridicule something that already is... parody.
To me, a stinker is a stinker even if The Beatles or Captain Beefheart did it. Could you think today that boys band like One Direction would even be allowed to record something like "Revolution 9"? Beatles where the first boy band.
"The biggest stinkers of well known bands."
That was the 89 album Flowers In The Dirt. My Brave Face and at least two other tracks were Paul/Elvis collaborations. Veronica from Elvis' album Spike was another one. Bunch more good songs from them together are out there if you search YouTube.
They should have done more together, it would have saved us from his oratorio album
With you right up to "boy band"...
They were one of the original boy bands.
I'm also a HUGE Rush fan. I agree with Vapor Trails as far as the initial mix was concerned (widely agreed as not being up to the mark) but, if you get the re-mastered version, I've found it makes for a much more enjoyable listening experience. I actually love the songs - and the fact that it marked Neil's return to the fold after a terrible period in his life).
Roll the Bones is one of my faves - actually, I can say, in all honesty that I don't dislike any of their albums. The one track they do that always makes me smile and seems a bit out of keeping with their work is "I think I'm going bald" from Caress of Steel.
You can say about Macca whatever you can think of but don't EVER call him stupid because NOT releasing the material he and Elvis Costello had worked on would have been the biggest mistake he could ever make.
So materialized it absolutely did, three albums full: Macca's "Flowers in the dirt" and Elvis' "Spike" and "Mighty as a Rose"
According to Macca, Elvis had to remind him that he IS a Beatle and that there was nothing wrong with embracing the sound that came with the Beatles. So whenever Macca would go "No, we already did that with the Beatles" Elvis would counter with "So what, let's do it again!"
Elvis also encouraged him to bring out the old instruments, the Melotron, the Rickenbacker 360/12 and the Hofner Bass. It all led to material which are anything BUT stinkers.