Asher Guitars WD Music Products Amplified Parts Mod Kits DIY Nordstarnd Pickups darrenriley.com
Asher Guitars WD Music Products Amplified Parts Mod Kits DIY Nordstarnd Pickups Warmoth.com
Asher Guitars WD Music Products Amplified Parts Mod Kits DIY Nordstarnd Pickups Warmoth.com

Talk me down! (Princeton GAS) ......again......

Discussion in 'Amp Central Station' started by xgritzx, Oct 9, 2018.

  1. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Doctor of Teleocity

    Age:
    58
    Mar 2, 2010
    Maine
    .......................Mi
    .................Mi..........Mi
    .........Mi........................Mi
    Mi........................................Mi


    Never saw one of those, what does Mi mean in French?
     

  2. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Doctor of Teleocity

    Age:
    58
    Mar 2, 2010
    Maine
    I was very tempted to buy one of the Selmer (Twin Twelve?) amps some years back, almost like a JTM45 2x12 combo with el34 and Greenbacks, plus snakeskin tolex.

    From the French Selmer company but I'm pretty sure is was a UK built amp.
     

  3. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Doctor of Teleocity

    Age:
    58
    Mar 2, 2010
    Maine
    I didn't mean to suggest that the amp is dull, more pointing out that for a bedroom player who wants a PRRI for low volume bedroom playing, and wonders if another "Princeton" non RI is "better" than a PRRI, but maybe doesn't realize it's also different in ways other than being vintage and generally much better quality.
    Expecting the same reverby sound would be a big disappointment!

    I would certainly choose the vintage Princeton non reverb, and actually have one from the later '70s.
    Not stock though, changed transformers and now a dual 6L6 amp.

    I switched from spring reverb to AD more than a decade ago, and in addition to preferring the sound, I love the fact that so many more amps now suit me because I no longer need amps with built in spring reverb.
     

  4. theprofessor

    theprofessor Friend of Leo's

    Aug 8, 2016
    Chattanooga, TN
    I just finished building a Princeton Reverb, and it sounds fantastic. Very touch-sensitive, built like a tank, will last a really long time, etc. Yesterday I was in Guitar Center and played a PRRI again. I must say that Fender has done a good job voicing these amps. They're a bit tinny and thin, but I think a lot of that is because of the "Jensen" C10R. I prefer the amp I built for a lot of reasons--especially because of longevity, ease of service, and because every component used, from turret board to cabinet to speaker, is of very high quality. But it's not because the PRRI sounds bad. I would not hesitate to buy a PRRI used for around $700. That said, if you can find a SF Princeton Reverb for around $1100 instead, I think that would be worth it--even if it needs $200-$300 in service.
     
    MilwMark likes this.

  5. Middleman

    Middleman Friend of Leo's

    Aug 29, 2007
    MV, CA
    Those pictures above of a modern PRRI circuit vs a vintage one. Reminds me of a guy with a man bun vs Arnold Schwarzenegger in an action movie.
     

  6. radiocaster

    radiocaster Friend of Leo's

    Aug 18, 2015
    europe
    Musique Industrie. That's a tough one, it means Music Industry (or maybe Industry Music). Or maybe you mean the note E? The knobs are in English.
     

  7. theprofessor

    theprofessor Friend of Leo's

    Aug 8, 2016
    Chattanooga, TN
    To add to @Mike Simpson 's post and mention @Middleman 's above:

    Modern PRRI guts

    s-l1600.jpg

    1973 Princeton Reverb guts

    2013-08-13-chassis-1.jpg

    Dave Hoffman's Princeton Reverb guts

    Img_8415.jpg
     
    Mike Simpson likes this.

  8. bottlenecker

    bottlenecker Friend of Leo's

    Dec 6, 2015
    Wisconsin

    Who says an ac15 doesn't gig? A guitarist in an old band of mine used one. It worked fine. You can mic up a 5 watt champ.
     
    MilwMark and telemnemonics like this.

  9. tele_pathic

    tele_pathic Friend of Leo's

    Age:
    47
    Aug 18, 2009
    St. George, UT
    I have the PRRI from sweetwater: tweed, 15w (supposedly), 12" Cannabis Rex speaker. At first listen, I loved it. Then after second listen, I was...meh. Yesterday, I went to the local guitar store here and played a '65 DRRI, which was meh. THEN I went home and gave the PRRI a third listen, but this time, I really, REALLY listened. And holy ****!!!! Yes, the PRRI all the way. It crushed the '65 DRRI. The tremolos are MUCH different. The DRRI is an opto-trem, so the volume shuts off completely for that helicopter chop. The PRRI is a bias-vary, and while the volume lowers, it does not shut off, so it's more of a throb. I find the PRRI tremolo to be more musical. Meaning, I just feel like I could leave the trem on all the time, and it always, ALWAYS sounded good. The DRRI trem got annoying after just a few minutes.

    So I would say get the PRRI. Although I would be more tempted with the '69 Princeton and add a CB Topagana reverb. Especially since the '69 Princeton has been serviced so recently. At the very least, I'd go play it and have the cash in me pocket. If I didn't like it, I'd go home and order the PRRI in Bordeaux.
     
    jannodude and fasteddie42 like this.

  10. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Doctor of Teleocity

    Age:
    58
    Mar 2, 2010
    Maine
    Yeah, AFAIK the AC15 is a higher actual output wattage amp than the BFPR/ SFPR/ PRRI.
    And an AC15 with the correct stock Celestion Blue will be a good deal louder than a Princeton reverb with any of the correct stock speakers.
    A Greenback in an AC15 will put it down closer to the volume of a PRRI, no matter what color tolex the PRRI gets.

    While I do not like the attenuated highs of the C Rex, which changes the character of any amp you put it in, the boosted efficiency compared to a RI Jensen is a change for the better IMO.

    It's actually possible the high end attenuation of the C Rex will reduce the BF/SF mid scoop EQ, and make the amp appear more mid forward than it actually is.
     

  11. EddieLocrian

    EddieLocrian Tele-Holic

    909
    Feb 7, 2014
    Isle-of-Wight
    You don't want that.

    You want this:
    Amp.JPG
     
    budglo likes this.

  12. MilwMark

    MilwMark Poster Extraordinaire Ad Free Member

    Apr 29, 2013
    near Arnold's
    15w is meaningless. Speaker efficiency matters. Circuit design matters. With the same circuit design, cabinet and speaker, you need 150w to be twice as loud as 15w.

    In my experience, an AC15 (unless it has an unusual speaker) is FAR louder than a Princeton Reverb.

    A Princeton Reverb is not a bedroom amp unless you live alone and have tolerant neighbors. Or unless your idea of good tone is thin and squeaky clean at a minimum of loud TV volume. That amp has a relatively inefficient speaker at 94.4 db. But that means when fed 1w of power (hard to feed it less than that) it produces 94.4db. Which is roughly as loud as a lawnmower.

    What does the price difference have to do with potential collectabililty? They charge more because people pay more for a different tolex, grill cloth and 12" speaker. I certainly wouldn't bank on any mass produced modern amp being collectable. The numbers they are churning out have to be far greater than the numbers in the 50s/60s/early 70s.
     

  13. MilwMark

    MilwMark Poster Extraordinaire Ad Free Member

    Apr 29, 2013
    near Arnold's
    Many are not afraid of circuit boards.
     
    jannodude likes this.

  14. Marc Morfei

    Marc Morfei TDPRI Member

    Age:
    53
    99
    Feb 6, 2018
    Philadelphia, PA
    Whoever says the AC15 doesn't gig has no idea what they are talking about. I have this and a 12" PRRI. The Vox is my main gigging amp. It kills. The volume never goes above halfway. You would never need to mic it, unless you want to for FOH balance. The 12" Princeton is plenty loud too.
     
    xgritzx likes this.

  15. MilwMark

    MilwMark Poster Extraordinaire Ad Free Member

    Apr 29, 2013
    near Arnold's
    Thanks for the dose of perspective. I bet if you can build an amp you can bias an amp and I further bet you could have closed the gap between the PRRI and yours by biasing the PRRI. That and the same speaker in both amps and I honestly suspect you couldn't pick 'em blindfolded.

    Not to say your hand built, hand-wired amp is not still a very cool thing. But sound really isn't the issue IMO.
     
    theprofessor likes this.

  16. budglo

    budglo Tele-Meister

    117
    Feb 15, 2015
    NE Ohio
    Now we’re on to something . I have this amp and love it.
     
    EddieLocrian likes this.

  17. Mr Scallywag

    Mr Scallywag Tele-Holic

    723
    Apr 15, 2016
    Australia
    An AC15 is giggable and for the same price as this Princeton you could get an AC15 hand-wired.
     

  18. Mike Eskimo

    Mike Eskimo Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

    Nov 9, 2008
    Detroit
    Variously ...

    - A non-reverb Silverface Princeton is one of the best amp bargains out there. Have a mid pot installed, speaker of your choice, and put a pedal board in front of it. (A tremendous pedal platform). Call it done.

    I gigged one for a couple years.

    - An amp tech I know well north of here says half his business is fixing PRRI’s and DRRI’s .

    - if the Vox AC15C1 was of average weight it would not have a single negative attribute.

    Being as it weighs 48 lbs , it definitely has one though...
     
    Mike Simpson likes this.

  19. MilwMark

    MilwMark Poster Extraordinaire Ad Free Member

    Apr 29, 2013
    near Arnold's
    Maybe 1/2 his biz is fixing. Them because so many are sold and played relative to other amps, particular vintage ones which were produced in smaller numbers and have dwindled in the intervening decades.
     

  20. gridlock

    gridlock Friend of Leo's

    Oct 1, 2011
    Tampa, Fl
    Vintage SF Princeton's can still be had for $900-$1000.

    Plan on putting another $100-$200 in it to have it serviced.

    A better investment than buying a new PRRI.

    Those '68 Custom PR's do sound nice though.
     
    Mike Simpson and budglo like this.

IMPORTANT: Treat everyone here with respect, no matter how difficult!
No sex, drug, political, religion or hate discussion permitted here.