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Sugar Pine Build-Questions

Discussion in 'Tele Home Depot' started by MerleJam, Dec 23, 2017.

  1. MerleJam

    MerleJam TDPRI Member

    Age:
    48
    60
    Dec 23, 2017
    Texas
    Thanks Ron. These will come in handy for sure. I really appreciate it.
     
  2. Ronkirn

    Ronkirn Doctor of Teleocity Vendor Member

    Age:
    72
    May 1, 2003
    Jacksonville, FL
    one of the things that can become a cognitive "speed bump" as one is building is the constant "droning" of guys making suggestions based on tone.

    While addressing such is important, it significance is far more psychological than real, or practical. By Psychological, i simply mean that if for whatever reason you have embraced some concept, or the importance of a specific part as being sonically significant, like a certain bridge, or a type of paint, that gets in your head, and if you compromise for a secondary choice, it will nag at ya from the caverns of your brain forever.

    So, don't let some guy talk ya into something other than what you have your heart set on. But, just don't go "blankin'" crazy.. a 40.00 cap is NOT gonna make a darn bit of difference, and a 200.00 bridge, while it will LOOK better, does not necessarily result in a sound that is 10 times better than a 20.00 part.

    Few things ever result in a sound change that actually rises above the threshold of sonic usability... and those that do, do so, so subtly, that unless you actually COULD A/B your guitar with and without, no one will ever notice it.

    What your guitar is made from and how it technically sound is immaterial.. However, it's how you play whatever you do have that makes the REAL difference. A well played guitar ALWAYS sounds great, but, a well made guitar CAN suck big time and most do... it's a product of the talent playing it.:p

    rk
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2018
    fenderchamp, ponce, eallen and 3 others like this.
  3. MerleJam

    MerleJam TDPRI Member

    Age:
    48
    60
    Dec 23, 2017
    Texas
    Ok..had to set the guitar build aside for awhile as I was busy with work. But got started back. I glued up by pieces. They got a little out of alignment during clamping. I don’t have a planer and I’m not good enough with a hand plane to attempt to level the surface so I (poorly) built a quick router sled out of junk I had laying around. It worked well. Now I’m ready to fine shape the body. After reading some posts on the forum I’m kinda nervous about pattern routing. Could I get the same results with an oscillating spindle sander? Or is there a relatively safe, tear out free way to pattern rout. Thanks
     

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  4. guitarbuilder

    guitarbuilder Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

    Mar 30, 2003
    Ontario County
    Yes cutting and sanding to the line will yield the same results. That's what people did before the flush trimming bit was invented for home use. Keep the wood moving and don't press too hard. I like to use a hard block and dowels wrapped with abrasive to finish it off and even things out. Use fresh drums and belts.
     
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  5. MerleJam

    MerleJam TDPRI Member

    Age:
    48
    60
    Dec 23, 2017
    Texas
    Thank you. I just feel a lot more comfortable with that.
     
  6. guitarbuilder

    guitarbuilder Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

    Mar 30, 2003
    Ontario County
    If you have access to a belt sander, that could be useful for outside curves for bulk removal. It'll leave cross grain scratches though which will need to be sanded out later. PIne will load up the abrasive, so you may want to get a gum rubber cleaning stick.
     
  7. MerleJam

    MerleJam TDPRI Member

    Age:
    48
    60
    Dec 23, 2017
    Texas
    I would have to buy the sander, which I don’t mind doing. I am concerned mainly about injury. I’ve never pattern routed. I didn’t know if the danger is in doing it with a router table setup or if it’s is equally dangerous with a handheld
     
  8. guitarbuilder

    guitarbuilder Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

    Mar 30, 2003
    Ontario County
    I would suggest that one buy a router and use it for cutting routs with templates for things like pickups, control cavities, neck cavities, and tremolo. That way you can get a feel for what the tool does and still keep both hands on it for control while you develop your skill and confidence. I started out with a 1/2 x 1/2 deep template bit from stewmac. Other brands now make one too. That takes less of a bite.

    Coupled with a lower HP router, you can feel more confident. You really don't need more than 1-1/2 HP for that kind of stuff. A porter cable 690 is popular around here.

    After a while, you can build or buy a router table and try your hand at round over with that for edges and if you so desire, the perimeter pattern routing. Practicing on low cost wood is a good way to start too.

    I'm a propronent of cutting with a bandsaw and sanding to the line for perimeter work. I've tried every way imaginable except for a table mounted spiral bit that came on the market over the last few years. That method works for me. Tear out is a hassle. YMMV.
     
  9. D_W_PGH

    D_W_PGH Tele-Afflicted

    Age:
    41
    Aug 28, 2018
    Pittsburgh
    Buy a good referb router kit in the 11/12 amp range if cost is an issue. Rule number one if you're worried about injury, keep both hands on the router at all times. Even if you get a kickback, the injury will happen to the blank and not you.

    I am almost entirely a hand tool woodworker, which means not even routers, but I recognize just how good the router is at this kind of stuff, and I had an expensive festool router stashed aside from making my kitchen cabinets. I don't want to offend any high-end tool users, the festool is a nice router, but I think for practical things for an average user, a refurb decent brand is as good at everything except dust collection. The dust collection and subtle better smoothness of the really expensive routers would be nice for every day work, but I kind of wish I hadn't spent the money.

    I agree with the above - see if you can find a piece of prefabricated wood at home depot or something (like the thickest stair tread that you can find - should be about $12), and give the router a rip on that before going to your good piece. You're many months afield, so you probably don't want to do what I did (which is make the first guitar quickly just to find out where you'll have problems - with routers, with truss rods, with whatever you think you'll do differently than normal - in my case, I like to cut/mortise the channel for a truss rod with a chisel and a router plane, which leaves you with decisions about how it will terminate).

    I think a spindle sander is workable, but it's something you'll end up regretting in time and dust. I have only been on this board for a day, so I don't know if it's sort of a standard (I clean up the router work with a scraper, rasps, files and a good boggs spokeshave - the combination are useful, but not necessarily economical when the spokeshave is thrown in).

    I do think there is some virtue in making a low-cost first version relatively quickly and documenting where you have problems so that you don't get too tentative and slow in the areas where you don't.

    (I also have a toploader, and read a lot about how it would affect tone because I didn't order a toploader but that's what came in the mail. In the end, I can't tell the difference between it and a string through in any way, despite reading otherwise. I'd guess the difference between toploader and not for people who have seen a difference of any significance is how well the rest of the guitar is made and how well the bridge is installed (i.e., is it tight, etc)).
     
    fabricator likes this.
  10. guitarbuilder

    guitarbuilder Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

    Mar 30, 2003
    Ontario County

    The Ridgid Oscillating Spindle Sander with its belt attachment ( AKA R.O.S.S.) is probably the most used power tool in this forum. It's not necessarily the most robust tool, but it and its cousins are cheap enough for these folks starting out.
     
  11. D_W_PGH

    D_W_PGH Tele-Afflicted

    Age:
    41
    Aug 28, 2018
    Pittsburgh
    Thanks, Marty. When I got into woodworking, there was another make of desktop spindle sander that was popular, but I can't remember what it was. It may have been delta or one of those brands that was popular at the time (because of Norm Abrams). I have seen the rigid mentioned on the power tool side and would think it's a good clean up tool, but might be a tool that puts you to sleep standing for significant stock removal.
     
  12. guitarbuilder

    guitarbuilder Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

    Mar 30, 2003
    Ontario County

    Could be the Delta BOSS you are referring to which is still kind of available in import version. I don't think anybody is standing around using a sander in place of some type of saw.... at least not with information provided here....LOL.
     
  13. D_W_PGH

    D_W_PGH Tele-Afflicted

    Age:
    41
    Aug 28, 2018
    Pittsburgh
    that's it, the BOSS. I'm probably completely in the weeds about usefulness, as I've gone the route of hand woodwork and invested time in spokeshave and heavy scraper use (it's necessary for planemaking where something like a BOSS would be too big).

    The rigid sander seems to have a much better reputation than the boss ever did, and this side of making things (guitars) creates a lot of things I didn't need for tools and furniture (there are no 8/4 handles on tools, the handles are smaller).

    I figured - yes - not necessarily sizing blanks entirely, but the amount of time involved if you were new to the hobby and cut an eighth or so away from the line on a bandsaw in places. Those kinds of things are easily corrected on open areas with a good spokeshave, but getting final finish and square can be difficult, and it still leaves the inside curves. There is a learning curve with rasps (working out of square, backside blowout, etc), cigar shaves, spoke shaves, files, etc, that maybe I'm not accounting for, either.

    I'm two days new here and have a lot to learn!
     
  14. MerleJam

    MerleJam TDPRI Member

    Age:
    48
    60
    Dec 23, 2017
    Texas
    I ended up using a 1/2” x 1” pattern bit and had good results with no tear out. I will have to touch up a few spots but was please with the results. I put the cavity rout template on and it doesn’t fit 100% flush like the other template did. They came together from the same supplier. What I’m worried about is the neck pocket. With the template flush with the body it looks like this(see attached photos). I didn’t know how to tell if it was right. It seemed to me that something is off. But I know nothing about this lol
     

    Attached Files:

  15. MerleJam

    MerleJam TDPRI Member

    Age:
    48
    60
    Dec 23, 2017
    Texas
    I guess what I’m thinking is off is the neck template is situated where I feel like the tiny thin piece of wood that’s on a teles neck pocket will be made too thin the way my template has the route path going. This makes me wonder if I just don’t have the template positioned correctly.
     
  16. MerleJam

    MerleJam TDPRI Member

    Age:
    48
    60
    Dec 23, 2017
    Texas
    In the process of removing material with a drill press and Forstner bit, the depth stop on the drill press for some reason didn’t work and I took a 3/4 bit of width of neck pocket down to 7/8”. It’s on the top most right portion of the pocket. I’m going to be painting the guitar. What is the best way to fix that? Thanks y’all.
     
  17. guitarbuilder

    guitarbuilder Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

    Mar 30, 2003
    Ontario County
    I'd glue in a piece of scrap wood.
     
  18. Buttered Biskit

    Buttered Biskit TDPRI Member

    Age:
    37
    49
    Sep 23, 2018
    Barton, WI
    Shellac will seal in the resins in the wood so it won't seep out.
     
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