Students who benefitted from bribes in admissions scandal.

Discussion in 'Bad Dog Cafe' started by Larry F, Mar 19, 2019.

  1. otterhound

    otterhound Poster Extraordinaire

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    Of course this can be stopped , but the system begs to remain alive .
    How did one gain acceptance to college before the SAT and all of the other standardized stuff out there ?
    Athletic scholarship application . Come to the school and show what you have in front of the faculty and with those already participating in the game .
    Will this cut down on successful applicants ? Yes .
    Will it cut down on fraud ? Yes .
    The problem is that these institutions have become business entities and business entities don't like downsizing .
    As long as they can peddle worthless degrees , this will continue . In fact , it will grow as long as there is profit in it .
     
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  2. Toto'sDad

    Toto'sDad Telefied Ad Free Member

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    Oh lord, wont you buy me a mercedes benz?
    My friends all drive porsches, I must make amends.
    Worked hard all my lifetime, no help from my friends,
    So lord, wont you buy me a mercedes benz?
     
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  3. Toto'sDad

    Toto'sDad Telefied Ad Free Member

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    I worked with a guy who got a scholarship to a college for being a really good golfer and playing on the school team. He said it didn't work out very good for him though, because they already had all the guys chasing women, and getting drunk every night that they needed, and he dropped out.
     
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  4. Toto'sDad

    Toto'sDad Telefied Ad Free Member

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    There seems to be some sort of consensus that if only the downtrodden and truly deserving kids could go to college and universities somehow the whole world would be better served. I submit to you, once they got in, they would resort to all the bad behavior that the rich kids formerly exhibited. The only net difference would be, the rich kids would be out there demonstrating while the poor students ignored them. The world only needs so many basket weavers, and pottery experts.
     
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  5. P Thought

    P Thought Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

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    I wish sometimes that I had college--plain old ordinary college--to do over again. I'd do it very differently, I think.

    On the other hand, maybe not. Some years ago, a friend of mine gave me this to read, and it changed my rosy outlook about college.
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2019
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  6. noah330

    noah330 Friend of Leo's

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    I guess I can't get all that worked up about stuff like this. Legacy students and wealthy people have been getting their kids into colleges for years.

    I took out loans that I repaid for years. When my kids go I'll be able to put them through debt free, because I took out loans that I repaid for years.

    The children of the rich most likely had their tuition paid in full by their parents and that money probably helped other kids go.

    Was it wrong? Yes.

    Should there be consequences? Yes

    Am I so jelly that I want to see a bunch of 18ish year old dopey kids face draconian punishment because they have what I didn't have? No
     
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  7. JuneauMike

    JuneauMike Friend of Leo's

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    I would challenge you to take a wider view of this scandal and consider who benefits from this scam and in what way. Many universities have evolved into hedge funds with a school dragging behind them. They have massive endowments that perpetuate a huge return to the university. While academic standards are important, those endowments are sacrosanct.

    I'm not aware of any evidence that the higher-ups within the universities were in on the scam, but there's an obvious and tangible benefit to the university to keep this kind of thing going. A poor kid gets a college degree and goes out in the world, and they've got a 50-50 chance of earning a good living. At the least, they've got a better than even chance of seeing some economic mobility, however modest. A rich kid will still be rich regardless of the outcome because their family was rich to begin with. Rich donors are the fuel for these endowments. Not poor donors, not working class donors, not newly middle class grads. These universities have every incentive to give preferential treatment to the children of wealthy families because they become loyal benefactors, sometimes for generations. While I wouldn't convict them for their own selfish self interest, I'm not so sure they are innocent either.

    I would venture to guess that there are probably some in academia, if they were perfectly honest, wouldn't necessarily say that what the FBI uncovered is a "problem."
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2019
  8. rad1

    rad1 Tele-Holic

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    It would be very ugly for the family that cheated to file suit and go through a public trial.

    I would bet dollars to donuts that the vast majority of the students involved were aware of the deception.
     
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  9. JuneauMike

    JuneauMike Friend of Leo's

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    I think this country would benefit greatly from a return to "plain ordinary college" again.
     
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  10. Chunkocaster

    Chunkocaster Friend of Leo's

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    The students are a step ahead, they will probably get to put that bribe experience to good use if they enter politics, the legal profession, local council, large business etc.
     
  11. D_W_PGH

    D_W_PGH Friend of Leo's

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    If they had a mark geragos type guy telling them they could get a huge chunk of change, they'd do it without issue. I don't think people have as much shame these days as some other folks expect them to.

    I have done everything fair and square literally except for one quiz in 8th grade where I had a crazy geography teacher that had us memorize 50 new things every day, then gave us a quiz at the beginning of each class. We all learned to cheat in his class, and I'm probably not worse off for it. So, my comments about what I'd do should be taken with a grain of salt, because I applied to one college, got in instantly, did all of my work and checked out of worrying about what other people were doing...

    ....but, if I had gotten in on an admissions game and then proceeded to outperform a large part of the student body, I'd have no problem suing a school and having my name made public. Every time someone asked me about my admissions, I'd take the opportunity to show them how much better I did than the rest of the class. And then I'd harvest money from them if they thought they were going to shame me.

    Personally, I'd prefer just to do things right, but I've had a couple of people in the last 20 years try to lay something on me unfairly and like many determined folks, i will make them pay 10 for every 1 of ill intention they tried to deal.
     
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  12. D_W_PGH

    D_W_PGH Friend of Leo's

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    I said something to a guy on the bus (whose daughter was going into college) that when I went to state U 20 years ago, it was $10K a year. Now, it's $27K a year - in state. The only real difference is that the campus is a lot prettier and some of the grungy engineering buildings (not an engineer, but took classes in their buildings) and business buildings have been replaced by much more expensive and prettier facilities. The academic achievement of the students hasn't changed, and the school's relative position is worse.

    I said "I want to start a college called 'bare bones' university". It'll cost half as much, only a small percentage of the professors will be research professors and the rest will have incentive compensation based on how well the kids score on post-graduate exams on average, job placement, etc, and the school will determine those things by transparent measures. There won't be "outreach efforts" or non-private financial aid, and the classes will be difficult. If you fail out, a review board will look at your case and if there's no exceptional circumstances, you can take your credits to another school because plenty will take 'bare bones u' credits because they're harder to get than the average "pretty lawn university".

    he flatly said "nobody would go to it because their kids would think it was dumb".

    None of the stuff that I learned in college was really expensive, and quite a lot of the rudimentary courses were taught by graduate assistants for almost no money, and most of the higher level courses were taught by assistant professors with full professors doing little and often not showing up for office hours because they had other ventures or interests. I have no idea dollar for dollar what the cost increases are, because they haven't resulted in better students/graduates, and the money seemingly isn't spent on education related items.

    The facilities look a lot nicer at most schools, though.
     
  13. Toto'sDad

    Toto'sDad Telefied Ad Free Member

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    Readin', writin', and arithmetic. The wandering off into studying the habits of the eastern moose tail blow fly and such in order to obtain a pretty much worthless degree should be suspended forever.
     
  14. Mike Eskimo

    Mike Eskimo Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    Nope. I got a Yugo for ya though.

    That or a Chevy LUV.

    Take yer pick...
     
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  15. Toto'sDad

    Toto'sDad Telefied Ad Free Member

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    I'll take the Yugo, the LUV wouldn't run long enough for me to get to the gas station. Come to think of it, how on earth were you able to come by the two worst vehicles ever built?
     
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  16. noah330

    noah330 Friend of Leo's

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    What makes a degree worthless? If someone earns a degree in a field of study that they're genuinely passionate about IMHO that degree is worthwhile and valuable.

    I didn't go to college to make a lot of money I went to be educated.
     
  17. memorex

    memorex Friend of Leo's

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    I wish I could have paid someone to go to class for me and take my exams while I partied. No, I had to do it all myself.
     
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  18. Middleman

    Middleman Friend of Leo's

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    Education and the need for it are null and void if there are no ethics around the system especially in a so called free society. It's, it's....Un American.

    We need to tell and teach our children that ethics and fairness don't matter and that cheating and payoffs are more important. That way they can compete more evenly if we aren't going to fix this issue.
     
  19. JuneauMike

    JuneauMike Friend of Leo's

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    When you compare the university I graduated from to the surrounding city its located in it seems like the Land of Oz.
    download.jpg
    There are strip malls, sandwich shops, repair garages and general urban decay. Right up until you reach the gates of our kingdom.

    A well known wrongthinker on TV recently raised a really interesting point regarding these kingdoms. The whole student loan game is designed to pour money into the universities while the risk is carried exclusively by the students and to a lesser degree the lending institutions. If a student defaults on their debt, the college doesn't suffer.

    We assume a college degree is a necessity in most career fields so the university can keep charging more and more and more and we'll pay it. They are huge generators of wealth wherever they exist. The only place where the cost of books has gone up is at university book stores, as an example. This whole student debt problem doesn't cost the colleges anything, in fact they benefit exclusively from it.

    I haven't been back to my university campus in years but its a safe bet that it's bigger and nicer now than it was back then. And it was pretty darn nice back then.
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2019
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  20. tery

    tery Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

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    It is the prevailing attitude of no values , no honor , and no personal pride that is viewed as acceptable and taught to students by their parents and schools that disturbs me .
     
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