Students who benefitted from bribes in admissions scandal.

Discussion in 'Bad Dog Cafe' started by Larry F, Mar 19, 2019.

  1. getbent

    getbent Telefied Ad Free Member

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    maxvintage, I dig you. but, this is like the scene in the novel 'the plague' where the priest is forced to either renounce his faith or pluck out his eyes... in our world, we don't go to that extreme... we aren't that brave. we simply say, as the robot says in the film 'alien'... still collating...
     
  2. Ribsspare

    Ribsspare Tele-Meister

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    I’m actually shocked I graduated from college. Personally I don’t like college and the school system.
     
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  3. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    I'm not sure what exactly "more formal education" means, maybe you mean institutional education?

    A kid who gets a job as an electricians helper, then apprentice if they show aptitude, then a journeyman, and finally a master electrician, has more formal education than a lawyer.
    A carpenter is known to go through a similar staged education process, and many are formally trained, as opposed to give stuff a try when the other guy isn't on site, which is the other route.
    Could be the less formally trained trades people are the ones responsible for the high incidence of poor quality in construction trades.
    Unions seem to have an even slower "training" process but I have no direct experience there.

    WRT westerners with- say- more than a bachelors degree, living longer, I'd presume that's a no brainer. Of course!

    People with a death wish, addicts and alcoholics, the mentally ill, are all less likely to get grad degrees and more likely to die young.

    Well adjusted folks who go into the trades are statistically more likely to harm themselves regularly as an aspect of trades work, and statistically less likely to have health insurance, so health problems will not be addressed until they cannot stand up and strap on the tool belt. By which time it may be too late.

    Those who get degrees beyond bachelors are likely to get safer jobs that do not harm them physically, more likely to take sick time and vacations, and almost certainly have health insurance and even atually use it by getting yearly physicals so any illnesses are caught early, and further they probably have better ins plans that cover treatments.

    To my observation, an awful lot of trades people, mostly men, view mortality as a challenge or a game, and self harm or high risk is a rite of passage.
    For such folks to not have shorter lives would make no sense at all.

    I doubt the institutional education is the cause of the longer life.

    More like the majority of people who want long comfortable lives get extended college degrees so they can hold safe comfy indoor jobs that aren't too dangerous.
    (And no, I'm not looking down on comfy.)

    Only a damn fool who wants a long comfy life chooses to build houses, cut forests, go to war, race cars, break horses and rope steers, mine coal etc etc.
    Certainly some straddle those two worlds, work corporate and play rough.

    But 50 hours a week playing rough with no safety net is a deadly life.

    Funny, there's a bridge out of Maine that was built when I was a kid.
    During construction it seems like a worker fell to their death almost every week, sometimes two.
    Took almost a year (?) to hang a net under the workers.

    A good portion of Americans are basically disposable.
    Disposables don't last as long!

    Along these lines it's notable that many blame the EPA and OSHA for the problems we face with the US economy and loss of manufacturing jobs.
    Disposable workers are cheaper than keep-em-living workers.
    Plenty of disposables in China, and even in Mexico.


    I'll add that I think schools like MIT are cool as hell, and I'm a damn fool for not getting some institutional education in my youth.
    Damn fool.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2019
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  4. chris m.

    chris m. Poster Extraordinaire

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    Great points, telemnemonic...
     
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  5. getbent

    getbent Telefied Ad Free Member

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    Formal education = university. It is a common term. Institutional Education is not a common construct within that industry...

    the rest of your post is just the dance couched in careful language to contextualize and ease the pain of what is obvious.

    As for the choices we make in youth... if we really went back, I think we'd find people do the best they can do.
     
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  6. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    I think it's pretty straight forward and plain language to suggest to young men who think the trades are a good direction to go.

    Many trades will use you up and throw you away.
    You will be a disposable member of society.

    No careful language there!
    And no easing of pain either!

    WRT folks doing the best they can do in youth, I've known an awful lot of tradespeople who eventually wished they had known how much it would take from them, when they got to the point where the body was closer to retirement than the bank acct.

    The idea of doing the best we can has always made me wonder: how do we know what that is?

    I would call the statement "people do the best they can do" as being "couched in careful language to ease the pain of what is obvious".

    Over the years I've often suggested to a trades associate that they could still go to school and learn another profession. Really, a college degree is available to people of fairly low intelligence. Yet many don't even try to do the best they can do, for a variety of reasons.

    Maybe it was lack of encouragement by parents and mentors.
    Maybe it was a learning disability that they were not offered alt solutions for.
    Maybe it was peer pressure to do the manly thing and lift a hammer instead of a book.

    I think we now face a pretty huge problem where so few "do the best they can" in both the blue and the white collar community, that society has lost its way.

    Critical moral and ethical thought has been replaced by factionalized group speak.
    The minds are offered a choice of couch, but seldom the choice of speaking out on the responsibilities humanity seems unable to take.

    OK so I'm going AWOL here but with a hard look we can see the problems of lemminging our way over the precipice.

    I suppose I'm stuck in a fantasy to think that humanity ever managed mass critical moral and ethical thought.

    Note that I am not a provider of documented data points!
    Rather I jab and poke at thoughtlessness.

    I'm doing the best I can do!!!
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2019
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  7. maxvintage

    maxvintage Friend of Leo's

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    I’ve never seen the movie, and no one is being forced to pluck out his eyes or renounce any belief. I’m just pointing out that evidence to support a claim was provided, and it’s evidence that can be easily examined. Nobody’s eyes are being plucked.
     
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  8. getbent

    getbent Telefied Ad Free Member

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    I am in full agreement with you... it was a.... novel... no super heroes, just regular people who had constructed a reality and when that reality was shown to be just not reality... they had to decide 'change my mind' or 'say you cannot see it'

    You can see the responses... many are going to choose to 'pluck out their own eyes' (to not see what is right there) rather than shift their reality.
     
  9. john_t

    john_t Tele-Meister

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  10. imwjl

    imwjl Poster Extraordinaire

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    To make it short, I totally agree on your last point. Most people try. Also, some of us just take longer.

    Something really nice about education is it's never too late as can be the case with many things Homo Sapiens do or at least attempt.

    :)
     
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  11. chris m.

    chris m. Poster Extraordinaire

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    I have some blue collar friends and relatives who have been very successful and are better off than me both financially
    and physically. But they had a bit of luck as well as ambition and good smarts, too. For example, my first cousin went into
    the Air Force after high school and was an enlisted electrician working in Minuteman silos. He got his electrical contractor's license
    when he got out and built then sold a very successful residential and business electrician small business. He had about a half
    dozen employees, lots of equipment/vehicles, and some very nice bigger contracts as well as smaller jobs.

    I know another guy that worked very hard in construction but long before his back and knees gave out he had risen to the level of
    job site manager and so he was mostly working a phone, computer, and clipboard, not having to do physical labor anymore.

    I also know a couple of master mechanics that have done very well for themselves running their own garage.

    None of us would have houses, roads, bridges, electricity, and a whole bunch of other things we take for granted if it weren't
    for blue collar workers. Many of those jobs are also immune from offshoring because they can only be done here at home.
    A Chinese blue collar worker can't install a new hot water heater in my house.

    Given how important these things are to our daily lives, and how in most cases some real craftsmanship, experience, and
    skill is required to do the job right, I for one think it's sad that blue collar workers don't get higher pay for the important
    work they do. On the other hand, even at their comparably lower annual pay they still hurt my pocket book when I have
    to hire them so I try and do as much of the basic stuff myself. I might hire a guy to install my hot water heater,
    but I can do things like replace leaky faucet valves (or their rubber gaskets) or snake out the toilet myself.
     
  12. BigDaddyLH

    BigDaddyLH Telefied Ad Free Member

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    Dood, your hot water needs no heating -- it's already hot!

    See? That's my kollege education at work!
     
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  13. chris m.

    chris m. Poster Extraordinaire

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    Ha ha, you're right. But everyone calls it a hot water heater, even though that is redundant. I've never heard
    anyone call it a "water heater", even though that does make more sense when you think about it.

    Kind of like the term, "hot tub". The tub isn't actually hot, the water that's inside it is. Common terms often
    don't make sense when you think about them literally.
     
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  14. imwjl

    imwjl Poster Extraordinaire

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    Today's Wall St. Journal has an article close to the 200+ posts ago topic.

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/studen...-admissions-scandal-investigation-11555272625

    From the article should the link remain behind the pay wall:

    "Prosecutors sent the letters to young adults believed to have known about the schemes that aimed to help get them into college, that person said. Such so-called target letters don’t mean the students or graduates who received them will face charges. However, they could prompt the recipients to speak to authorities and push parents to plead in the hopes of protecting their children from additional prosecution, said others knowledgeable about the case."
     
  15. bcorig

    bcorig Tele-Holic Silver Supporter

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    “The reason I say teachers live better is that they live longer on average than any other significantly large group of people than I can think of.“ I’m interested to know if this is your personal opinion or based on some evidence.
     
  16. Harry Styron

    Harry Styron Tele-Afflicted Silver Supporter

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    There is a really interesting movie version of this novel, set in South America, with Wiliam Hurt, Robert Duvall and Raul Julia. https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0105127/
     
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  17. twangking

    twangking Tele-Afflicted

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    Doesn't bother me. They're probably bagging my groceries at stop and shop.:lol:
     
  18. D_W_PGH

    D_W_PGH Friend of Leo's

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    It's based on actual evidence. Apparently, it violates the TOS to state facts - though I think that's for individuals presenting their opinions as fact. This is just fact, not my opinion.

    (edited - found a better generalized source - their words in red):

    https://www.prnewswire.com/news-rel...lans-mortality-tables-pub-2010-300781498.html

    Analysis of this robust dataset reveals that teachers have the longest age-65 life expectancy of the job categories studied.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2019
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  19. boris bubbanov

    boris bubbanov Telefied Ad Free Member

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    One of the most useful things one can get from a Liberal Arts Education is.....

    When your neighbors call it a Hot Water Heater, you don't correct them. You join them.

    I was chewing the fat with a Sheriff's Deputy the other day about Carbon Monoxide and he made some remarks about how deadly Carbon Dioxide was and I felt I could get away with correcting him. He's a young guy, and he took it the right way - he knows I value what he does.
     
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  20. boris bubbanov

    boris bubbanov Telefied Ad Free Member

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    That used to be a fun thing to say.

    But, it isn't any more. Thinking about it, don't you agree?

    Still, it is a shame.
     
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