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Spotify Hit With $1.6 Billion Lawsuit

Discussion in 'Bad Dog Cafe' started by Bones, Jan 2, 2018.

  1. TeleTucson

    TeleTucson Tele-Afflicted Ad Free Member

    Aug 6, 2016
    Tucson, AZ
    Wow. I guess I'm old fashioned and believe that I might pay for things I value.
    drlucky, djh22 and PBO Blues like this.
  2. colchar

    colchar Friend of Leo's

    The Kardashians and Paris Hilton prove otherwise.
  3. Jupiter

    Jupiter Telefied Silver Supporter

    Jun 22, 2010
    Osaka, Japan
    To be fair, they are extremely good at being famous, and they work pretty hard at it.
    Long hours, yo!
  4. deytookerjaabs

    deytookerjaabs Friend of Leo's

    Jun 5, 2015
    Somewhere there's a guy yelling at people because they don't support horses ever since the model T was invented. Funny thing about consumers, if there's an easier way to do things that's invented they jump on it about 99 times out of 100, it's human nature.

    It's technology, it changes everything, we adapt and change for better AND worse.

    As for the spotify thing, I thought the issue was with them having some backdoor deal with the labels wherein they pay a little bit for a lot of access meanwhile the royalties for the writers are nearly non-existent.
    drlucky, Piggy Stu and PBO Blues like this.
  5. Jakeboy

    Jakeboy Tele-Afflicted

    Jul 26, 2008
    Sedalia, MO
    I have several albums on Spotify and Jakedog is right. You get almost nothing.

    Bandcamp and CdBaby are better. At least I get a fair price for MY songs that I wrote and recorded.
    Jakedog likes this.
  6. Nightclub Dwight

    Nightclub Dwight Tele-Holic

    Aug 12, 2016
    Looks like the Jakes agree on this one!
    Jakeboy, LutherBurger and Jakedog like this.
  7. bottlenecker

    bottlenecker Friend of Leo's

    Dec 6, 2015
    Aren't they both famous for already being rich?
  8. colchar

    colchar Friend of Leo's

    I've no idea as I pay no attention to those wastes of oxygen, I was simply trying to crack a joke with my previous post.
  9. Musekatcher

    Musekatcher Tele-Afflicted

    I've never paid radio a dime - do you folks have radio's with coin slots or something? Lets stay on the same target: We are talking about the end user, the consumer, the listener. They've never had to pay for radio access.

    The business model is very well documented. Radio exposes an artist so you know who they are, versus the competitions act. Then folks want more. How do you think we all know who a young fella from TUPELO Mississippi is? He was a radio hit before he hit Ed Sullivan's show - which was on FREE TV then as well. This stuff goes back to the first records ever sold. Not debatable.

    HE didn't make much from radio play before then, if anything. How did he make scratch? LIVE SHOWS, and RECORD sales. Radio made folks want to buy his records, not the unknown on the same shelf. Radio made folks stand in line to see him live - not my unknown uncles who never recorded.

    Finally, there are several artists who aren't available on Spotify. I suspect Neil Young could have denied rights a long time ago, but his corp wanted to see this play out, because publicity is vital to sales, and this is free publicity and exposure. At some point, their accountants think they've extracted everything to be gained from free air play, and now going for a law suit to extract more. It looks totally crooked to me. And old Neil is an operator for sure.
  10. DougM

    DougM Friend of Leo's

    Jul 5, 2017
    Honolulu, HI
    This is just indicative of a society full of a bunch of spoiled little brats, who want to get paid a fortune for their work, but don't want to pay anyone else for theirs. They want to be able to steal music, movies, and books for free, 'cause they're too cheap to pay for someone's music that they like, or a film or TV show they like, but they'll pay $100 a month for that little electronic god in their hand that occupies and dominates their every waking moment. They expect, even demand services from govt. that they take for granted, but don't want to pay any taxes to help pay for those services. It makes me sick. They all need to grow up.
  11. bottlenecker

    bottlenecker Friend of Leo's

    Dec 6, 2015
    Ads pay for radio. Some of us really hate ads and consider it a very expensive cost to listen.

    Most people don't buy recordings anymore. The world changed when you weren't paying attention.
    unfamous likes this.
  12. Bones

    Bones Telefied Ad Free Member

    Dec 31, 2005
    Luddite Island, NY
    I do, I pay Spotify.
    I think people who have Spotify feel that they are paying for the service and it's up to Spotify to make sure they have content, it's not our responsibility to make sure the artist got a good deal. I would think that whatever they are getting paid is more than they would otherwise, which would be nothing. There are no record stores anymore, the record/cd clubs have gone out of business. I have bought and paid for the entire Zeppelin, Stones, Aerosmith, ZZ Top and other bands' entire catalogs on every format they have ever been released on, I'm done. How much is a play of "Walk this Way" worth in 2018? To me? To the band/songwriters? Even ASCAP and BMI do not actually distribute the money from venues, radio and jukeboxes based on actual plays, the licensing money is distributed to the top dogs.
    fmmlp, Nubs and Georox like this.
  13. Musekatcher

    Musekatcher Tele-Afflicted

    Right, and I don't pay for ads, radio or Spotify. I also have a large collection of LP's, reel to reels, 8 tracks, cassettes, CD's and unrestricted mp3's amassed over the decades. I've probably spent more on purchased music, than you will spend on itunes in your lifetime. In fact, I'm certain of it. So I'm a much larger consumer (or was) of music than you will be, all spawned from the age of free music. Again, these folks should be paying Spotify to run their product, if they want to make money. Otherwise, they can look fwd to being famous in their own apartment with the cats and neighbors. And ask them for a monthly premium to listen, lol.
  14. LutherBurger

    LutherBurger Friend of Leo's

    Oct 29, 2013
    His business strategies never cease to amuse.
  15. bottlenecker

    bottlenecker Friend of Leo's

    Dec 6, 2015
    Well, you're certain of something you couldn't possibly know, which might explain why you're currently unable to understand or accept what's happened to the music business.

    But in this case you're right, because I've never spent a dime on itunes. I listen to vinyl and CD, and still buy both. Given the current cost of vinyl, and the nature of inflation, your assertion that you've spent more than I ever will is not very likely to be correct.

    I also own some cassettes and reels. I have purchased one album of mp3s in my life, because it was obscure and not available any other way.
    drlucky, boredguy6060 and unfamous like this.
  16. RedRiverII

    RedRiverII TDPRI Member Gold Supporter

    Oct 5, 2017
    I hope it works out for everyone. Everybody has to eat.
  17. LutherBurger

    LutherBurger Friend of Leo's

    Oct 29, 2013
    Sadly, Tom Petty doesn't. I wonder whether his name would be involved in this if he were still alive.
    Jakeboy and P Thought like this.
  18. maxvintage

    maxvintage Friend of Leo's Ad Free Member

    Mar 16, 2003
    Arlington, VA
    So I would like to see a breakdown of spotify royalties vs radio royalties. What did you get for a million plays on AM/FM radio, back in the day?

    It's worth considering the whole supply chain, back in the day. The label hires a guy whose job is getting DJs to play your record, by whatever means necessary. Bribes, of one kind or another--cash, perks, favors. There are hundreds of DJs in hundreds of cities. So he/they have to get paid and DJs get paid: that comes out of the artists' earnings. Then you get a royalty on plays, but the real money was sales of physical records and shows. At least that's how I understand it. I've never seen a breakdown of radio royalties v spotify.

    Spotify is different in that you don't need the guy working the DJs: people find their music or an algorithm advances it. You don't need that infrastructure of promotion. Also it's way more "available" than radio--you can hear a specific playlist, rather than waiting through songs you don't like for songs you do. So theoretically they can play less and artists come out ahead. A niche band--that would never get radio in the old model--can reach nearly all its fans.

    The AM/FM model was based on a cartel, a small number of labels with the capital to finance expensive recordings and then put lots of resources behind an artist they want to break big, including record pluggers bribing DJs and giving Alan Freed a songwriting credit on "Maybelline." That would be the model that gave rise to Neil Young. Neil misses the cartel model, where he had a very large share of limited distribution. I can understand why.

    I'd like this more if ordinary artists were boycotting spotify in order to get a higher royalty rate for everybody, rather than geezer rockers trying to return to the glory days.
    Georox and Bones like this.
  19. -Hawk-

    -Hawk- Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

    Oct 14, 2015
    IL, USA
    I love Spotify. Aside from having instant, global access to my favorite music, I spend a lot of time just scouring for new stuff to listen to. An hour or two doing that will show anyone that new music isn't dead.

    However, I feel like they need to get this all sorted out and do it soon. Artists need to be paid fairly for their work. I want to know that the money I'm paying isn't being allocated unfairly or not at all. Spotify obviously deserves a cut too, because it does provide exposure on an unprecedented scale.

    Ive been buying vinyl from my favorite artists lately, though I rarely have time to listen to it. That and I always buy merch, either online or when I see them live. I value what these people do and understand what it's like to struggle for money. I can't imagine the touring lifestyle, aside from the big acts, is very lucrative on its own.
    drlucky, Outcaster and RedRiverII like this.
  20. -Hawk-

    -Hawk- Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

    Oct 14, 2015
    IL, USA
    I do want to say that Spotify is different than radio in that it's replacing album sales. I don't think you can compare the two, other than the fact then arrive through the air. Though I don't own anything I listen to on Spotify, I de facto own about 50-100 albums I have downloaded to my phone for offline listening (as long as I'm a subscriber).

    Point being I think the artist's cut of royalties should be higher for a service like this.
    TeleTucson likes this.
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