Asher Guitars WD Music Products Amplified Parts Mod Kits DIY Nordstarnd Pickups darrenriley.com
Asher Guitars WD Music Products Amplified Parts Mod Kits DIY Nordstarnd Pickups Warmoth.com
Asher Guitars WD Music Products Amplified Parts Mod Kits DIY Nordstarnd Pickups Warmoth.com

Speaker idea for 5F11 Tweed Vibrolux with early breakup

Discussion in 'Amp Central Station' started by timewaster1700, Jul 8, 2018.

  1. timewaster1700

    timewaster1700 Tele-Meister

    260
    Feb 17, 2016
    Utah
    i recently built a 5F11 Tweed Vibrolux. I put a Eminence Cannabis Rex in and in a lot of ways I like but I think it’s a bit darker than I’d like and probably the biggest thing that has me looking for other options is it’s bloody loud! I mainly play at home or mic’d at a church and would prefer this amp be lower volume. Are there any speakers I should look into that are less efficient, and have a nice early breakup so I can get to a smooth natural overdrive without shaking the house? Basically lower volume overdrive would be great and just lower volume overall. I like smooth compressed sounding overdrive if that helps. I was thinking maybe the Weber 10A125-O? I should add I play both a les Paul and Tele.
     
  2. Uncle Daddy

    Uncle Daddy Tele-Meister

    462
    Sep 26, 2015
    Maldon, England
    Eminence 1028? The Jensen P10R might do the job too.
     
  3. cgharrison

    cgharrison TDPRI Member

    26
    Aug 14, 2008
    Los Angeles
    These are pretty unknown, but I absolutely love them: the VOR speakers from Midwest speaker. I got one in an amp long ago, and they’ve become my absolute favorite for 50s style amps. To my ear, they’re head and shoulders above Jensen, Weber, Eminence, etc when it comes to a p10r or p12r type speaker.
     
    dan40 and corn husk bag like this.
  4. charliehorse

    charliehorse TDPRI Member

    3
    Dec 23, 2006
    Portland
    Not a traditional choice, but a 10” celestion greenback is 95 db sensitivity for way more innefficiency than the Cannabis. I have a couple that I have tried in my 5c4/5c5 type homebrew, and they sound good, but have lots of bass, where coupling caps might need changing, etc...
     
  5. milocj

    milocj Friend of Leo's Ad Free Member

    Aug 21, 2005
    Michigan
    I'd stay away from the Weber 10A125 as the two that I have in my brown Super sound great but are pretty aggressive and loud. I think that when I first tried one in my Princeton Reverb it was louder than the 10F150 that I had in there at the time. Great speaker, I just don't think it will do what you want it to do.

    I think the 10A100 would be closer to the original speaker, though I haven't tried one of those before.
     
  6. schmee

    schmee Friend of Leo's

    Jun 2, 2003
    northwest
    I'm confused... the Crex is 12" and you mention getting a 10" weber....? Which size?
     
  7. timewaster1700

    timewaster1700 Tele-Meister

    260
    Feb 17, 2016
    Utah
    Thanks for the input everyone. I have a 12” greenback in my AC15 I should hook up and try. The 10A100 is hard to find information on but may be a good one to try. I’ll have to look up the others.

    It is a 10” speaker. They make a 10” cannabis Rex it’s just a little harder to find. Bought mine from Midwest speakers
     
  8. dan40

    dan40 Tele-Holic Silver Supporter

    940
    Aug 19, 2015
    Richmond Va
    I have also wanted to try the VOR speakers. They are very affordable for alnico, have a very low sensitivity rating of 93db and everyone who has tried them has spoke highly of them...https://www.midwestspeakerrepair.com/shop/guitar-speakers/vor-v10a-25-10-inch-alnico-guitar-speaker/ Unfortunately there are not many reviews or sound samples to listen to.

    Another highly regarded speaker for these circuits is the WGS Veteran 10. It also has a low sensitivity rating and the cost can't be beat. Many great reviews for this one out there...https://wgsusa.com/vet10
     
    powerwagonjohn likes this.
  9. thegeezer

    thegeezer Tele-Holic

    Age:
    65
    924
    Jul 5, 2010
    West Michigan
    Based on your post, you need a speaker with a really low SPL. The VOR may do it. I’ve used a 12a100T in my ‘54 Deluxe and it’s about the same efficiency as an original 50s Jensen.


    By the way, the T indicates a ribbed cone, which you likely want. No suffix indicates a smooth cone unless their numbering system has changed.

    Stay in the low 90s SPL-wise.
     
  10. schmee

    schmee Friend of Leo's

    Jun 2, 2003
    northwest
    Traditional Fender speakers ought to give you low SPL. Maybe too low though! I'd be tempted to try a bigger magnet Oxford, Utah or CTS ceramic. Utah's are a bit rare in 10" though. There's a ton of CTS out there though.
     
  11. timewaster1700

    timewaster1700 Tele-Meister

    260
    Feb 17, 2016
    Utah
    Man there are too many good looking options. I may just have to decide on one, buy and try, then keep swapping. Could get kind of expensive and is a pain selling them, but all the speakers you all mentioned sound like they might fit the bill.
     
  12. BobbyZ

    BobbyZ Doctor of Teleocity

    Jan 12, 2011
    Snellman MN
    Wish Eminence made a 10" Maverick.
     
  13. timewaster1700

    timewaster1700 Tele-Meister

    260
    Feb 17, 2016
    Utah
    I wonder if I need to do both a combination of switch the speaker and add a switch to disconnect the negative feedback. Basically do robrob's 3 way negative feedback mod for the 5E3 but for the 5F11. As I look at the differences between the Deluxe and the Vibrolux, other than the obvious Tremolo vs two input channels, I see two main differences: negative feedback versus the cathode bypass cap on the 5E3 for max gain in the pre-amp section and fixed bias vs cathode bias. I don't think I get much pre-amp distortion in my 5F11 and my guess is that's due primarily to the negative feedback. I bet if I made that switchable off that would help me get more pre-amp dirt and therefore earlier breakup. Coupled with a speaker like the above you all recommended, maybe I could get into the territory I want at low volume.
     
  14. timewaster1700

    timewaster1700 Tele-Meister

    260
    Feb 17, 2016
    Utah
    Well talking with CJ at Weber speakers, he recommends the 10A125 over the 10A100T and use an attenuator. Anyone had any comparison with the 10A125 vs 10A100 or for that matter a Jensen P10Q vs Jensen P10R which the two speakers are supposed to be replacements for? The original 5F11 Vibrolux has a P10R in it so I'm thinking maybe the 10A100 would be better. Problem is even just asking CJ at Weber what he recommends I can tell his personal preference and bias is involved ya know? He doesn't seem to like the O version of the 10A125 and describes the cleans as lacking detail with that speaker.

    Also anyone used the Weber Minimass Attenuator. Looks pricey and a bit heavy but nice.
     
  15. timewaster1700

    timewaster1700 Tele-Meister

    260
    Feb 17, 2016
    Utah
    Well I ordered a Weber 10A125 30W to try out. Also ordered a Weber Mini Mass Attenuator. Going to try adding the mod to switch negative feedback out of my amp which should hopefully let me get some preamp distortion. Combined with power tube distortion cranked and the attenuator to bring it to a reasonable level I actually think I might be able to get the tone I'm looking for without really needing any speaker breakup. I'll try to post results after I've given it a try
     
  16. caspersvapors

    caspersvapors Tele-Meister

    197
    Nov 28, 2008
    CA
  17. timewaster1700

    timewaster1700 Tele-Meister

    260
    Feb 17, 2016
    Utah
    Dang sounds like an awesome speaker and so cheap. I already order the Weber 10A125, but I may have to try ordering one of these too. $50 is cheap. Sounds like its basically a tweaked WGS Veteran.
     
  18. pedro58

    pedro58 TDPRI Member

    48
    Jan 25, 2004
    North Texas
    You might also try tubes that a rated to break up or compress earlier. They are often labeled or described as "soft" in the descriptions. I know I've seen these for 6L6 types. You might investigate and see if there are similar ratings for 6V6. I just purchased some 5881 Tung Sol's and had a choice of soft/medium/hard. I selected soft and they do have a little less headroom than the tubes I used before.
     
  19. caspersvapors

    caspersvapors Tele-Meister

    197
    Nov 28, 2008
    CA
    Just get it, its so cheap. Worth a shot. Ive had the Veteran as well as a slew of so many other 10s, I like this one better. I just bought 2 more yesterday for my SF Vibrolux. I literally laughed out loud to myself when I cranked my Princeton to 10 with this speaker
     
  20. timewaster1700

    timewaster1700 Tele-Meister

    260
    Feb 17, 2016
    Utah
    So I purchased the Weber 10A125 30W, light dope and a Weber Mini Mass Attenuator. Wow! Starting with the speaker. Its MUCH better for this amp than the Cannabis Rex even without a break in. It has so much more high end which I thought I didn't want, but it just is more usable with a balanced sound. I can keep my tone at 6 or 7 instead of 10 or 11 with the Crex. I also think comparatively the Crex almost sounds like you're in a cave or something when I tried using my Super Signa Drive pedal. This speaker feels more open and alive with my pedals.

    With the Mini mass, wow can I have a lot of fun. I added a 3 way negative feedback switch from @robrob 's website which in the case of the Vibrolux lets me switch the NFL out of the amp and get a lot more dirt. Combined with the attenuator, this is a lot of fun and sounds great with the new speaker. The weber doesn't feel as mid focused as my greenback in my AC15 which I don't necessarily think is good or bad. I like both sounds. They're different. I think I would like to build another Tweed at some point and go the Celestion route to get a different flare.

    Overall very happy so far with the Weber. Going to keep breaking it in. I've only been using it at pretty low volumes so far so I haven't seen how it handles higher volumes. Definitely feels like a better fit or this amp. I can see how the Crex would be good mixed with other speakers in like a 4x10 cab but on its own its too dark for me.
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2018
    robrob, dan40 and FiddlinJim like this.
IMPORTANT: Treat everyone here with respect, no matter how difficult!
No sex, drug, political, religion or hate discussion permitted here.