Asher Guitars WD Music Products Amplified Parts Mod Kits DIY Nordstarnd Pickups darrenriley.com
Asher Guitars WD Music Products Amplified Parts Mod Kits DIY Nordstarnd Pickups Warmoth.com
Asher Guitars WD Music Products Amplified Parts Mod Kits DIY Nordstarnd Pickups Warmoth.com

Sozo Blue vs Yellow for Tweed Deluxe (5E3)

Discussion in 'Shock Brother's DIY Amps' started by timewaster1700, Aug 9, 2018.

  1. King Fan

    King Fan Friend of Leo's Ad Free Member

    Jan 1, 2013
    Salt Lake City
    Hey, Wyatt, no fair using actual facts. :)

    Your observation agrees with what I've heard, read, and experienced -- now that you remind me.

    The whole jumbled process points out boutique caps benefit from an air of mystery and *may or may not* differ much from standard caps. And that's before we even talk about whether foil cap construction affects tone.

    The 'do caps matter' fight is a non-starter IMHO -- and also never-ending. FWIW, I like Mallory and have used them. But I once dissected a Mallory and a Mojo Dijon, and the Dijon actually *looked* closer to the insides of a blue molded Ajax -- thinner foil layers more tightly rolled, if that's a thing. I like Mojo Dijons a lot too, and they're really affordable.

    When I use Sozos or other boutique caps it's mostly for fun. I put 4 in my 6g2 in the slots where Fender used Ajax -- it just looks more like a vintage amp. Sounds fine, maybe sounds great, who knows, but it cost me like $10 extra, which I saved back by using Dijons elsewhere.

    Now if we're dissecting things, who's gonna cut open a big blue Sprague filter cap to see if there's really a cheap Chinese cap inside. *That's* a long-lasting rumor I've never seen tested with pics.
     
    timewaster1700 likes this.

  2. rogb

    rogb Tele-Holic

    821
    Jan 3, 2012
    London, England
    Maybe I'm getting hearing problems and maybe not but how can you tell the difference between caps from YouTube videos?
    It's hard enough to tell standing right next to the amp.
    I've used 150s in Marshall style builds but mostly use ODs in everything.
    Once the drummer starts up they sound pretty similar.
     
    sds1 and ecoast like this.

  3. JD0x0

    JD0x0 Poster Extraordinaire

    Age:
    28
    Feb 22, 2009
    New York
    I only concern myself with the construction type and composition. Cap brand and color makes no difference to me..

    Film/Foil Polyester

    FilmFoil Polypropylene

    Metalized Polyester

    Metalized Polypropylene

    Make sure you're not fighting over the same caps from different BOOOTEEEK manufactures ;)
     

  4. JuneauMike

    JuneauMike Friend of Leo's

    May 5, 2015
    Alaska
    Well, I am not as experienced in amp building as everyone here. But I make it a point to do my research before I begin the build.

    I search amp forums and Harmony Central for discussions on various caps, I watch clinical tests of cap comparisons posted on Youtube, paying particular attention to videos that say "shootout" somewhere in the title.

    I then visit the website of the cap maker and take great pains to believe everything they say about the cap. Then, after polling members of internet forums (this goes very smoothly at Shock Brothers, not so smoothly at Reddit) I narrow down my choices further and do a series of mathematical calculations that weigh how cool the caps look alongside the other components, factoring for my color preferences, and arrive at the perfect cap. I used Blue SoZo's in my 5F1 this way. They look super cool in my amp and seem to work just fine. Plus, SoZo rhymes with "Mojo" and I wanted my amp to have lots of mojo.

    I think Abraham Lincoln said it best when he said the Internet can be a tremendous resource if you use it right.
     

  5. Wyatt

    Wyatt Tele-Holic

    952
    Nov 3, 2004
    I have always felt those were two different things that got blurred.

    1. There have been a whole host of counterfeit electrolytics on the market (not use the DIY market). You may remember Samsung and others got burned a decade ago with counterfeit caps of their flatscreen TV's.

      Manufacturers were using smaller, lower-voltage caps inside of larger mismarked shells[​IMG]
      [​IMG]

    2. People cut open Blue Atoms and found out that they were mostly hollow. But, long ago, Spargue started advertised Blue Atoms as a option for restorations based on appearance, not construction. They only used larger cans because it's what would look/fit right in an old amp or radio.
      [​IMG]
      [​IMG]
    I think through the years these two things got meshed into one rumor. I have never seen another, cheaper cap inside a Blue Atom shell, and if I did I would assume it's counterfeit.
     
    King Fan and timewaster1700 like this.

  6. JuneauMike

    JuneauMike Friend of Leo's

    May 5, 2015
    Alaska
    BTW, this is an excellent reason to give SoZos a try.
     

  7. Mike Simpson

    Mike Simpson Doctor of Teleocity

    Mar 19, 2006
    Gilbert, AZ (PHX)
    There are a couple of interesting product reviews if you scroll down on the Antique page.
    https://www.tubesandmore.com/products/capacitor-sozo-nexgen-blue-molded-vintage

    copied from the comments on the Antique Electronics page, don't know who this is by YMMV.

     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2018 at 12:57 PM

  8. timewaster1700

    timewaster1700 Tele-Meister

    258
    Feb 17, 2016
    Utah
    Very interesting. This thread has been very enlightening. I think I'll probably try the Sozo blues for coupling caps and see how it turns out compared to the Mallory caps. But the mojo @JuneauMike mentions is a very real and important consideration. :D

    Plus I feel if the caps are even just 10% better its worth it in the grand scheme of things compared to the overall cost of the amp and the fact that I'm picky about tone. Now the real question left is what to use for the 0.0047 tone cap. Sozo doesn't make a blue in that value only a yellow.
     

  9. timewaster1700

    timewaster1700 Tele-Meister

    258
    Feb 17, 2016
    Utah
    Let me just add I enjoy these discussions. Jumping in on the forum is fun because you both learn a lot and get to discuss topics that don' interest most people. So far I haven't found anyone in person who could care less about any of this stuff. :p
     

  10. Wyatt

    Wyatt Tele-Holic

    952
    Nov 3, 2004
    There is no better, just different. All these caps have the same reliablity (give or take). Other than that it’s all subjective, some people will call a cap warm, others will call it muddy. Some will claim a cap is harsh, others will praise its clarity. How “accururate” a cap is to the real deal ‘50s cap doesn't matter.

    People sometimes pay more for a cap they like less. Some will insist they hear a difference because they’ve convinced themselves there should be one (the placebo effect). Who knows.

    But, for most of us this is a hobby, no harm in trying things out.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2018 at 2:54 PM
    jsnwhite619 likes this.

  11. timewaster1700

    timewaster1700 Tele-Meister

    258
    Feb 17, 2016
    Utah
    I understand what you're saying. I should have defined "better". I would define it as clearer and warmer but I agree with you that is subjective for sure.
     

  12. Wyatt

    Wyatt Tele-Holic

    952
    Nov 3, 2004
    From my experience, those are usually opposites when dealing with caps.
     

  13. JuneauMike

    JuneauMike Friend of Leo's

    May 5, 2015
    Alaska
    If that YouTube test is any indication, the yellows appeared "clearer," the reds (blues in this case) appear to aim for "warmer." The test subjects were Jupiters, and not SoZo's, but based on the marketing literature I presume both companies are apparently aiming for the same target; mustards & astrons.

    Again, trying what you haven't tried before makes the most sense. The coupling caps on these tweeds are pretty much front and center, so buy both and just solder them into the turret or eyelet in a way that makes swapping them later easy.
     

  14. timewaster1700

    timewaster1700 Tele-Meister

    258
    Feb 17, 2016
    Utah

    Hmm maybe warm isn't the right word. I like high end, but not ear piercing harsh although I think we can all agree that is much more related to the speaker than the caps by far.
     
    JuneauMike likes this.

  15. SacDAve

    SacDAve Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

    Age:
    66
    Dec 23, 2009
    Rocklin Ca.
    Has anyone tried MusiCap's ? $$$$$$$. Will anyone omit to trying them :D
     

  16. Wyatt

    Wyatt Tele-Holic

    952
    Nov 3, 2004
    Have not.

    But, typically, parts praised in the hi-fi world aren’t popular lin guitar amps and vice-versa. Guitarists aren’t interested in neutral tone.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2018 at 6:10 PM

  17. ecoast

    ecoast Tele-Meister

    459
    Jan 6, 2017
    NWNJ
    agree

    band starts = all caps same


    mebee it's the krystal lettuces?
     

  18. JuneauMike

    JuneauMike Friend of Leo's

    May 5, 2015
    Alaska
    If its just a single demo of a single component then it's not very helpful. But in this case, you can at least note the contrast between test A and test B and maybe get a general sense of how two things differ. But it's still something to add to your base of knowledge when you're shopping. A Youtube video of a Vox AC15 vs Blues Jr as an example. Neither sound precisely like they do in person, but the video will confirm for us that they indeed sound differently.
     

  19. jimgchord

    jimgchord Tele-Meister

    Age:
    45
    384
    Apr 3, 2018
    victor,ny
    Mallory
     

  20. sjhusting

    sjhusting Tele-Afflicted

    Jul 8, 2003
    Germany
    I've used standard yellow Sozos, blue molded Sozos, Mallories, various ODs, Jupiter red, and Xicons in tweeds. My conclusion: 150s and Xicons are fine. Now I base my choice by what I have in the drawer and what fits better physically on the board. I recently forgot this, and as a test replaced all the 150s in a tweed pro with red Jupiters. My conclusion there was: waste of money. I won't do that again.

    I'm picky about the signal resistors, though. I use Dale RN65 as much as possible. All CC has ever added (to my ears) is hisssssss.

    steven
     

IMPORTANT: Treat everyone here with respect, no matter how difficult!
No sex, drug, political, religion or hate discussion permitted here.